Ampeg V4-B di affected by volume

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by jlt5x, Aug 25, 2018.


  1. jlt5x

    jlt5x Supporting Member

    May 8, 2007
    chicagoland
    So for most amps I have used, the di volume is consistent, regardless of master output volume. So if I adjust my volume on stage, the signal sent to foh stays the same.

    I recently got a V4-B and I noticed that that the gain and/or master volume affect the signal sent from the DI.

    Why is this? Why would you want this? Is there any way around it? I realize I could use a direct box to split, but I want my amp tone sent to foh.

    Trying to keep it simple - hoping to not have to split, use preamp pedals, etc.
     
  2. Most amps have a pre/post switch, and if you had it set to pre, it sent the signal you plugged into the front directly to the DI so anything after that (gain, master volume, eq) didn’t effect what the DI got. The V4B doesn’t have this switch, and presumably just sends the post eq signal. This means that the gain knob and the eq knobs all effect the DI’d signal. The benefits to this are you get the tube sound from the preamp and of course any EQ changes. To keep the signal constant would require something to turn down the DI signal as you turn up the gain or EQ knobs, and vice versa.

    If you want the sound of the entire amp, including the power tubes, then you need a DI that’s made to go right before the speakers. If you want to keep the volume constant, you would have to either use a DI before the amp like you suggested, or maybe one of those speaker level DIs has an volume knob you could adjust.
     
  3. jlt5x

    jlt5x Supporting Member

    May 8, 2007
    chicagoland
    Thanks. I would be happy just having the preamp going to foh. I wonder if I could send preamp-out to di. In this case, I would guess that gain adjustments would affect volume to foh, but not master volume changes.
     
  4. JimmyM

    JimmyM

    Apr 11, 2005
    Apopka, FL
    Endorsing: Yamaha, Ampeg, Line 6, EMG
    Why would you want the volume and tone changes to affect FOH? Because you're playing through one of the greatest tube amps ever made with one of the best tube preamps ever made! Small price to pay to deliver THAT SOUND to the house!

    In the case of the V4B, both the gain and master affect volume to the XLR out. One could make a case for separating out the master from the XLR circuit, but I imagine there are design considerations that might make the amp not sound as good if they did that...I don't know...I'm not an amp designer.

    It's very simple to deal with, though...set your volume level to suit your band before the gig, and don't make any drastic changes that freak out the sound tech. Subtle ones are usually OK, but when I use an amp with a DI where everything affects volume, I usually just set it and forget it. Have made an occasional change before, but I'm very careful not to make it too drastic. Again, small price to pay to keep from having to use the cheap piece of crap DI the sound tech will inevitably pull out if you don't use the amp DI.

    However, I haven't ever tried only sending the pre out to the house...it could work, but you will want to stick one of those 1/4" to female XLR transformers on the end of your cable because nobody uses 1/4" to go to the board anymore.
     
    drumvsbass and Wisebass like this.
  5. jlt5x

    jlt5x Supporting Member

    May 8, 2007
    chicagoland
    Yeah that’s what I was thinking for the send. I hear you on the sound, but I play with different people, different places so I tend to tweak as I play. Maybe it wouldn’t be an big issue. Just wanted to see what options there would be.
    Thanks
     
    Wisebass likes this.
  6. Wisebass

    Wisebass

    Jan 12, 2017
    Lost in Space
    Hi jlt5x :)

    It is only your pre, that goes to FOH! The balanced D.I out is the output at the poweramp in, after the effect loop.

    The master volume is a master preamp volume! There is no master poweramp volume! :D (see manual pages 7 and 14)

    Only the PF20t and the PF50t have their D.I. outputs after the poweramp (tranformer balanced out)

    Well spoken! :D

    This is it! But I thought it was our job to make 'em freak out :laugh:

    greetings

    Wise(b)ass
     
    Last edited: Aug 26, 2018
    JimmyM likes this.
  7. Wisebass

    Wisebass

    Jan 12, 2017
    Lost in Space
    Sorry! Won' t change a thing!

    The preamp out too, sits after the mastervolume (see post above)

    only difference is, that it sits before the effect loop and cannot be ground/ lifted.

    greetings

    Wise(b)ass
     
    JimmyM likes this.
  8. Wisebass

    Wisebass

    Jan 12, 2017
    Lost in Space
  9. JimmyM

    JimmyM

    Apr 11, 2005
    Apopka, FL
    Endorsing: Yamaha, Ampeg, Line 6, EMG
    Well it sounded like a good idea at first.
     
    Wisebass likes this.
  10. Wisebass

    Wisebass

    Jan 12, 2017
    Lost in Space
    Hi jlt5x :)

    Tweaking your sound on your V4b (and btw on any other Ampeg, even the class D amps) will change your gain structure.

    Even without the master volume involved, this will make a difference for your output level! (talking "post EQ"!)

    That master volume is just one more "knob" to tweak. :D

    When you "tweak" Bass, Midrange or Treble you will always have to adjust Gain and or Master.

    Just learn how to keep your "stage volume" on the same level and you should be fine!

    Take it easy!


    and may the bass be with you

    Wise(b)ass

    btw: when you want to use your powertubes for your sound, get a speakerlevel D.I. and/ or a good micro!
     
  11. MDBass

    MDBass Supporting Member

    Nov 7, 2012
    Los Angeles, CA
    Endorsing Artist: Dingwall-Fender-Bergantino-Dunlop-Tech 21-Darkglass-Nordstrand
    The “pre” DI send is pre EQ, not pre gain.
     
    Wisebass likes this.
  12. Primary

    Primary TB Assistant

    Here are some related products that TB members are talking about. Clicking on a product will take you to TB’s partner, Primary, where you can find links to TB discussions about these products.

     
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