Ampeg V4B + 212av = Loud Enough?

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by Robi Brown, Jul 18, 2017.


  1. Robi Brown

    Robi Brown

    Jun 22, 2016
    Just got a V4B off of reverb and a 212av from a local GC I can return and wanted to ask the question... in what applications is it loud enough and what applications would it be too quiet? I don't particularly consider myself a loud player and the only loud scenarios I would put this amp through is during any sort of post-rock band (and maybe emo/mathrock bands). As far as jazz / soul / funk, I would imagine this setup to be fine volume-wise and tonally beautiful since it is an all-tube head. I don't have a band or a space to crank it currently so I'm asking anyone with direct experience with the head and/or cab if this will do what I want: not trying to scramble people's insides from deafening bass tone... just wanting to be heard!

    I live 3 floors up and have to lug my gear up and down and this is the reason I didn't go the SVT+810 route.

    Is it a smart idea to keep both the head and cab and maybe get an afforable solid state head with more wattage for louder bands with the 212av (like an Aguilar TH500?)
     
  2. JimmyM

    JimmyM

    Apr 11, 2005
    Apopka, FL
    Endorsing: Yamaha, Ampeg, Line 6, EMG
    Sounds to me like you will be fine. It's not as quiet as you might think it could be.
     
    P-oddz likes this.
  3. Robi Brown

    Robi Brown

    Jun 22, 2016
    Thanks so much Jimmy! I also know that lots of venues will ask for your bass signal to grow through a DI in order to go through the house, so I figure the V4B + 212av route would be a good route!
     
    JimmyM likes this.
  4. Loud is a variable.

    In my experience with tube amps 50w is not enough. 200w gets by ok with a sensitive 2x15 with what I would call moderately loud clean.

    I think it would be a close run thing for 100w and 212 to be ''loud enough'' for jazz.
     
  5. coreyfyfe

    coreyfyfe Supporting Member

    Nov 19, 2007
    boston, ma
    Loud is definitely variable. 50 watts with my 2x 112AV stack has been more than enough for many of my gigs. My loud rock band I've done 100 watts without issue, but usually use a 2x12 and a 200 watt head. Really a subjective term.
     
  6. JimmyM

    JimmyM

    Apr 11, 2005
    Apopka, FL
    Endorsing: Yamaha, Ampeg, Line 6, EMG
    Yeah, maybe if you're playing jazz like the Dixie Dregs with a guy using two full stacks on guitar. Otherwise it'll be fine.
     
  7. P-oddz

    P-oddz Supporting Member

    Apr 7, 2009
    Milwaukee, WI
    Have to agree with Jimmy, and also add that the "loud enough for Jazz" comment should be taken with a grain of salt. Especially with no experience of the amp/cab in question.

    From my experience (5-piece alternative rock that leans fairly heavy on fuzz and driven tones), the V4B/212AV cuts the mustard in all but the most extreme of cases. Those have been open air shows (festivals and the like) when a little extra stage volume would be appreciated but is not completely necessary as the PA is doing all the heavy lifting (just a personal preference to have mostly only vocals pushed through my monitors).

    I would also say to not get hung up on the numbers to determine if you are going to be loud enough or not. An amp's performance, IME and IMO, is more than the sum of its wattage. I own a 200 Watt Solid State Sunn amp that absolutely blows the doors off of my Ampeg PF800. That said, it all does depend on how CLEAN you are looking to be. The V4B is good at giving some grunt and heft at lower volumes, and if you were looking to be super clean and super loud, the V4B was probably not the amp you'd be looking for anyway.

    Enjoy it. The amp/cab rocks.
     
  8. High Camp

    High Camp

    Oct 3, 2013
    Netherlands
    I tend to always be too loud with my V4B and two SVT112AV cabs, but that's just my experience.
     
    Burwabit, JimmyM and punky like this.
  9. The kind of loud I think it may not stay clean enough on involves vocal PA, outdoors, drummer going for gold, trumpets and more trumpets, trombones for Africa, and earplugs, but only a Fender Twin guitar amp.

    If it turns out to not be quite loud enough for maths I would be seriously wary of chucking a bigger amp at the cab. The next 100 clean watts you throw at it will get a bit louder but after that it goes downhill.

    Adding another 212AV first is a much better plan.
     
  10. Burwabit

    Burwabit Likes guitars that tune good and firm feelin women

    Apr 4, 2011
    Lubbock, TX
    Yes. Amazing live tone from this rig with the V4B. For bar settings, it's always been loud enough for me with rock and country bands.

    I'm sure an Aggie TH500 would sound good through that cab. I've played a Mesa D800 through mine and it sounds fantastic.
     
  11. I use my V4B With a single 15 sometimes in an 8 piece funk band. Works ok as long as we don't go as hard as the drummer CAN hit.
    But add ANOTHER 115 cab and it's plenty.
    I'd think you'd be fine. ..add another 212AV if not. Hard to beat the tone outta that V4B! !
     
    Dp1363 likes this.
  12. webmonster

    webmonster

    May 19, 2013
    New Zealand
    Last year I used my 1968 jansen bassman 75 and matching 2x12 cab (fitted with eminence beta-ii drivers, but nothing else changed) with my local big band. It did ok and stayed clean, but I'm not sure how much louder it would go. Amp & cab would have fared better with my recently acquired hpf-3 to tame the crazy bass response which eats headroom!
     
    kat888 likes this.
  13. JimmyM

    JimmyM

    Apr 11, 2005
    Apopka, FL
    Endorsing: Yamaha, Ampeg, Line 6, EMG
    I think that illustrates the difference between older Fender (and the Jansen "tributes") and Ampeg bass amps in a nutshell. Fender may have come up with the first viable electric bass, but they had very poor efficiency in their bass amps. Cabs were too small to give the speakers enough room to work for bass at higher volumes, and transformers were too small to reproduce low notes at higher volumes. They sound fantastic, but broke up a lot earlier than Ampeg's bass amps of comparable wattages because Ampeg used bigger transformers and cabs.
     
  14. CATFISHMcC0Y

    CATFISHMcC0Y

    Mar 23, 2017
    Indiana
    The rig im using right now is a fender bassman 50 (pre master volume knob edition) with an ampeg 410hlf. I haven't gigged with it yet but in practice I seem to be lacking a bit of clarity. I realize the practice room isn't an ideal environment in which to dial in tone, but I am thinking about moving to something with more power (i.e. SVT or V4B). Do you guys know if this will give me the clarity I'm looking for? I'm leaning towards the v4b right now cause it's cheaper, but those blue line vintage SVTs are very attractive to me.

    Any advice? I play in a four piece rock and roll band so it gets loud at times so I'm thinking the extra wattage would do me well.
     
  15. JimmyM

    JimmyM

    Apr 11, 2005
    Apopka, FL
    Endorsing: Yamaha, Ampeg, Line 6, EMG
    While the extra wattage would probably serve you well, the SVT 410hlf is just one of those cabs with a gigantic bottom end, and if you get one made before about 2010 or 2011, they are extremely muddy. Newer ones have greatly improved the mids and tamed the muddiness of the low end, although they do still go very low.
     
    CATFISHMcC0Y likes this.
  16. CATFISHMcC0Y

    CATFISHMcC0Y

    Mar 23, 2017
    Indiana
    Thanks for the quick response and as always unmatched knowledge/insight
     
    Son of Wobble and JimmyM like this.
  17. Tim1

    Tim1

    Sep 9, 2005
    New Zealand
    Jimmy is right about the hlf and I doubt that a Bassman 50 has the power or the eq to tame it. Regardless, if as you say you "get loud at times" I doubt that the Bassman will cut it for you. I used to find my old Bassman 100 would overdrive far too early to give me a useable tone at a reasonable rock volume, even with efficient speakers. I suspect you are ultimately looking at new speakers and amp but if it was me I would be looking at the amp first. Your suggestion of a V4B is a good one and either would give you a significant improvement over the Bassman 50 ( I used to have a 410hlf and have played a V4B through it). The V4B is a cleaner sounding amp to my ears than the Bassman 50 or 100, it seems to overdrive more smoothly and euphoniously. If it was me and I was younger I would leap at the SVT which has the best chance of taming that 410hlf and you may find that is as far as you need to go.
     
    Last edited: Jul 21, 2017
    CATFISHMcC0Y likes this.
  18. Jansen copied the front panel layout but not much else apart from the name.
     
    webmonster likes this.
  19. webmonster

    webmonster

    May 19, 2013
    New Zealand
    Yes, they're very different to fender bassmans. Bigger transformers. Two thoughts re: my bassman - 1. bass response is crackers and eats power if you're not careful (Yay for hpf-3!)
    2. Mine has only seen repairs, not a complete rebuild. I know many of the original components now measure out of spec after 49 years.
    20 years ago I did a gig and someone had left a peavey 18" cab at the venue. My bassman and this cab were enough for my loud band with hard hitting drummer. Earplugs were a must!
     
  20. kat888

    kat888 Guest

    Oct 13, 2015
    The first amp I played through was a Jansen Bassman 75 and 212 ... possibly the same one you have.
     
    webmonster likes this.
  21. Primary

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