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AMT S25 Bass Mic

Discussion in 'Amps, Mics & Pickups [DB]' started by Sam Sherry, May 15, 2002.


  1. Sam Sherry

    Sam Sherry Inadvertent Microtonalist Supporting Member

    Sep 26, 2001
    Portland, ME
    Euphonic Audio "Player"
    I just played my first rehearsal with the S25. It sure did sound like my bass! My guitar player owns a mastering studio, and he was saying, "Don't lose that thing."

    Thanks to Ray Parker -- "He Who Brakes For Horse Dovers" -- for constructive advice. Ray is on the extremely distinguished list of endorsers for the product.
     
  2. Marcus Johnson

    Marcus Johnson

    Nov 28, 2001
    Maui
    I'm not one to resurrect old threads, but I'm thinking of going mike only with my newborn La Scala hybrid. I want to get the sound I'm hearing in my living room! (Thanks, Arnold)

    So, heaven help me, I'm thinking of getting the S25B. I play almost all acoustic jazz and classical, mostly at a low to moderate volume, and as much as I like my K&K setup, I really don't relish recarving Arnold's bridge to accomodate the wing pickup. And ultimately, my favorite sounds have always been with a good mic, or none at all. My only hesitation is the price, but I gig 300+ nights a year, so I think I deserve it :smug:

    So what y'all think? (Adrian?....) Talk me out of it! BTW, I currently play through the Bose L1/B1 system, or my trusty AI Contra.
     
  3. Dude! You got your La Scala! I must've missed your brag thread!

    Congrats.
     
  4. Marcus Johnson

    Marcus Johnson

    Nov 28, 2001
    Maui
    Thanks! It's everything "they" say.... Plays like buttah, growwwls for days, thumb position to die for, looks gorgeous. Here's me; :D :D :D :D :D

    Now, I gotta get these frickin' weekend slab gigs outta the way, and get down to bidness....
     
  5. kip

    kip

    Sep 11, 2002
    Sausalito, Ca

    Hmmmm. Maui. Weekend gigs. ALOHA Marcus, I have a very close personal friend who just might be willin to help you out.

    :bassist:
     
  6. Doing a quick price-check, I would recommend that you at least try a Neumann SK-184 slung between the legs of the bridge, pointing at the fingerboard (picture) - not quite as pretty, but around $100 cheaper, sounds great both arco & pizz. and can be used for other recording projects… Well, you did ask!

    - Wil

    BTW what does the S25B need for phantom power? (K184 requires 48V - I put it either through a Presonus or the main board depending on the venue)
     
  7. Marcus Johnson

    Marcus Johnson

    Nov 28, 2001
    Maui
    NO! YOU CAN'T HAVE IT!! ALL GIGS ON MAUI ARE
    MINE!!!BWOOO-HAHAHAHAHA!!!! :spit:
     
  8. kip

    kip

    Sep 11, 2002
    Sausalito, Ca
    Well OK, be that way, but I warn you that your invitaion to sit-in at our "Beer, Bait and Ammo" festival is under serious reconsideration.
     
  9. Marcus Johnson

    Marcus Johnson

    Nov 28, 2001
    Maui
    Sounds enticing. Actually, it sounds like my formative years in Northern Wisconsin.
     
  10. kip

    kip

    Sep 11, 2002
    Sausalito, Ca
    AMTS25B's . My teacher uses one with a Clarus. Sounds very good. Like his bass. Don't know about feed back though. Seems fine w/ moderate volume.
     
  11. Adrian Cho

    Adrian Cho Supporting Member

    Sep 17, 2001
    Ottawa, Canada
    I use an S25B or the SP25B as they call the version with the "super" preamp. I also have the tailpiece mount upgrade so that it's mounted "permanently" on the bass which is handy for setup and teardown and I don't have to worry about knocking the body mount off the bass or anything like that. I love this mic and I use it exclusively. I find it works for all the situations I play in from small cafes with duos to 10,000 sq. ft halls and theatres (with and without assistance of a house PA). I previously owned a Dyn-B (and the accompanying Schertler Pre-A II) and sold it and now just use the mic exclusively. My regular band has two horns, guitar, and loud drums and I never have a problem getting enough volume with the mic. I use it through the Schertler Pub speaker which I find reproduces the clarity very well.

    I have not tried any other bass mounted mics except for a Rode NT3 and an Oktava MC012 between the bridge with rubbers bands. I also tried an AKG C4000B and an Audio-Technical AT4047/SV (both large diaphragm studio condensers) on a stand. I found the AMT to be very good even against the studio mics and of course its design (the capsule itself as well as the preamp which has a low pass filter) makes it much better for live use and rejecting sound from unwanted sources.

    The AMT is expensive but I think you're paying for a few things:

    - Quality
    - Performance (it rejects sound well enough for use in most live situations - at least for me)
    - A good mounting system including the isolation ring on the capsule
    - Long-term service and support

    Call AMT Tech Support (not sales) and speak to Marty Paglione who is the designer of the mic. He's very helpful.

    I was lucky enough to buy mine on eBay at a good price. I then sent it in for the tailpiece upgrade and I think for something like $100 (perhaps $120) they replaced EVERYTHING except for the preamp electronics - new preamp case, new capsule, new mount (of course). Basically a whole new mic with a new warranty. I was quite impressed.

    Anyway, it works for me. I know there are not a lot of users out there or least not many that are not big-time professional players. I've certainly gotten my value out of it and I continue to impress people with the sound I get through my rig using this mic.

    I play on gut strings and I've found that a mic is really the only way to fully reproduce the sound of my setup. Anything else is too much of a compromise.

    Regarding feedback, sure like any mic it is sensitive but I've never had a situation where I could't get enough volume out of it (before inducing feedback).

    Adrian
     
  12. Marcus Johnson

    Marcus Johnson

    Nov 28, 2001
    Maui
    Thanks, Adrian! I ordered mine yesterday. I'm not familiar with the tailpiece mount; is it on the AMT website?
     
  13. Adrian Cho

    Adrian Cho Supporting Member

    Sep 17, 2001
    Ottawa, Canada
    No it's not. It's an option that they haven't really started marketing yet and perhaps they never will. The reason is that with the tailpiece mount, the options for where you can place the capsule are a little more limited because the gooseneck will in all probability be shorter. What they would prefer that you do is use the standard body mount and work out where you like to position the capsule and then if you want the tailpiece mount, you calculate the length of the gooseneck you need and they custom make it with that length. I really need to get a photo of mine so people can see what it looks like.

    The standard body mount was made for sound guys to move it from bass to bass. The pain of course is that you have to put it on and remove it each time even though in all honesty that only takes about twenty seconds if that. The tailpiece option is good because it stays on all the time. You just plug into the preamp using the mini-XLR plug they give you and plug the preamp into your speaker and you're done.

    I had my gooseneck made very long so that it goes under the bridge (between the legs) and the capsule is located just below the end of the fingerboard. That way it picks up some of the fingerboard sound which I like. Although I do have to be careful if I slap the strings against the fingerboard which I sometimes like to do with latin grooves especially if there is no drummer. The other thing to be aware of is that if you have a quiver, when you drop the bow back in the quiver, you may hear a slight thump because the mic is attached to the tailpiece. Through your amp this will be barely noticeable if at all, especially if music is going at the time. However through a house PA it may be more noticeable.

    One other thing - the AMT marketing pics show the mic located in front of the f hole. Marty said that some marketing guy setup that shoot and he agrees its not an ideal location. Yes you can get a lot of volume out of it but the sound is boomy and not natural. Somewhere over the table of the bass makes a lot more sense.

    I believe Marty told me that Patitucci is using the tailpiece option. I think when I had sent mine in for the upgrade in about September last year, I was about the sixth to get it done.

    Make sure you report back about it and good luck. Mine sounded OK through the AI amp but far better through the Pub. Interesting to think what it might sound like with the Bose system.

    The other thing is that you might find the output from the AMT 1/4" output a bit low. There is an internal trimpot inside to increase it if you want. It ships from the factory set at about 50%. The gain is 40 dB. The volume control outside controls the max. of the setting set by the internal trimpot and affects the 1/4" output only. The XLR output cannot be changed.
     
  14. Marcus Johnson

    Marcus Johnson

    Nov 28, 2001
    Maui
    Thanks again, Adrian, for all your help; I know this will come in handy when it comes time to tweak my setup.
     
  15. Phil Smith

    Phil Smith Mr Sumisu 2 U

    May 30, 2000
    Peoples Republic of Brooklyn
    Creator of: iGigBook for Android/iOS
    This AMT mic has a cool mounting system but I don't see how it's that much better than the Audio Technica ATM35 that I own. Looking at the specifications they seem to be about the same, both have a caridiod polar pattern, with the ATM35 having the edge in frequency response 30-20,000 Hz and a higher Maximum Input Sound level of 145db. It's also a clip on type and I usually clip it onto the tailpiece of my Kay and point at the table of the bass. I paid about $175 for the ATM35 which comes with a power module with XLR out and 150 Hz low frequency roll-off. The AMT is more than twice as much, can it really be that much better?
     
  16. Adrian Cho

    Adrian Cho Supporting Member

    Sep 17, 2001
    Ottawa, Canada
    The only way to know is to try it I guess. I've never used the ATM35 so I can't say. The mounting system of the AMT gives you a lot of flexibility regardless of whether you're using the body mount or the tailpiece mount, because the gooseneck is quite long. The shockmount is also a good thing.

    Look purely at the specs, the frequency response of the ATM35 is actually not as flat as the AMT especially in the low end. The upper end you're talking about with the ATM35 is irrelevant when you're reproducing bass and I'm saying that as someone that is into a very high-fidelity reproduction. The AMT is completely down to about 40 Hz and up to about 6 K. The ATM35 has more peaks and dips in it's response. That doesn't mean that you would like the AMT better - just that it's response is more accurate and in theory the reproduction is more accurate.

    Also, the AMT pre has a built-in low-pass filter which I believe is also quite effective in the total performance.

    But you're right, there's a big difference in price. I think with the AMT you pay for a number of things including all of what I've said about as well as the service and support.
     
  17. Chris Fitzgerald

    Chris Fitzgerald Student of Life Staff Member Administrator

    Oct 19, 2000
    Louisville, KY
  18. Adrian Cho

    Adrian Cho Supporting Member

    Sep 17, 2001
    Ottawa, Canada
    It's absolutely true that close mic'ing is not exactly the same as what you would hear from a distance but for live situations there's no other choice. Even though you end up hearing things like the buzzing of the bow hair on the strings and the fingerboard and string handling noise, the mic is still superior to any pickup because it captures other elements of the sound that the pickup just can't get. There's a lot of guys out there who say they would use a mic if they could get it to work for them (no feedback, no bleed, etc.). Well the fact is that many of us have proven you can get it to work (at least for the situations we play in). It just takes the right equipment and a little bit of work.
     
  19. bassopotumus

    bassopotumus

    Mar 17, 2004
    Hey Adrian,

    I have been thinking of buying an AMT microphone for a while now, and I was wondering if the SUPER PRE-AMP version of the microphone was really worth the extra money. Does it make a big difference on the sound?

    Thanks so much,
    Bassopotumus