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An experiment to discover each member's perception of music (or something like that)

Discussion in 'Miscellaneous [BG]' started by Blackbird, Nov 23, 2001.


  1. Blackbird

    Blackbird Moderator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Mar 18, 2000
    California
    All members encouraged to participate!



    <font size=3>Question:</font>


    <font size=5>Why does music have to be perfect?</font>

    Answer the question above. Explain what factors you've taken into account to formulate your conclusion.
     
  2. rllefebv

    rllefebv

    Oct 17, 2000
    Newberg, Oregon
    Okay, I'll take a stab. Music can't be perfect in the sense that it is open to interpretation... A quarter note played at 60 bpm is still subject to the individual's phrasing of the note. Of course, this is my opinion... I would much rather interact with a human drummer than a machine programmed counterpart simply for the fact that our playing has the possibility to inspire each other to greater heights.

    As for making mistakes, I am human and mistakes are part of who I am. I have been in a constant struggle to get this across to a few of my bandmates... If you play live music, you're going to blow it from time to time, and IMO, this is where alot of the fun comes from. I keep trying to convince them that being good isn't about not making the mistakes, but rather how you come back from them, learn from them, and possibly incorporate those lessons into your music.

    My current band is composed of the remanants of two local bands: the drummer and I coming from one unit, the two guitar player/singers coming from the other... Eric and I played in a fairly free-form blues band where spur-of-the-moment jams and dynamics were par for the course, the other guys from a much more structured verse-chorus-solo-ending kind of format... When things get a little loose during a gig, the drummer and I are much freer to adapt to the moment than the others due to the fact that we're comfortable with not being 'perfect' and are confident that we can forge through a change is song format.

    Some things you can't really practice with an eye towards perfection, and I feel that on-stage interaction is one of them.

    Well... there it is BW, hope this is what you were looking for...

    -robert
     
  3. rickbass

    rickbass Supporting Member

    I never perform music "perfectly."

    I can always imagine something I could have done better, no matter how incredibly small.
     
  4. Hategear

    Hategear Workin' hard at hardly workin'.

    Apr 6, 2001
    Appleton, Swissconsin
    I know that it's a simple enough question, but I don't "get it."
     
  5. a large part of the beauty of music is imperfection. i always think of the concept of distortion. it's really an imperfection in amp design, when you think about it. yet it's desirable nowadays in a lot of music.
     
  6. Define "perfect" as it applies to your question.
     
  7. Because failure is not an option. ;)
     
  8. anon5458975

    anon5458975

    Apr 5, 2001
    Interesting topic Big Wheel. The question is pretty vague, not sure what you mean by perfect or who said that music has to be prefect but I have some free time so I figure I'll try and explain a few takes on this, as I understand it.

    Take for an example a first run at improvising original material. By that I mean picking up your instrument with no real preconcieved thoughts of what you are going to create, just letting a fresh song be born from the top of your head, straight through from start to finish. When I take this approach I try to transcend a "perfectly" true impression of the emotional state that I am in at the time I am writting/playing the piece. Though more often than not I'm not even fully aware of what that state may be, but in the end result when I play back the recording there's something inside me that judges whether or not I have represented myself truly. It's not often that I feel that I have.

    For music that is being worked on and written over a period of time the process is quite similar, only in this case I'm not hoping to transcend an emotional state, I'm trying to recreate the original feelings that were produced when I first found the inspiration to start the piece. I think that's why a good deal of artists feel a strong urge to really put in the work to complete a specific piece of material in a timely fashion, sometimes to the point of obsessing. I guess it's sort of like striking while the iron is hot. Over a given period of time whatever passion or emotions that initally inspired the musician to take a specific approach to creating the song can begin to fade. Focus can be lost and the original vision the artist had in mind can alter into something completely different than what was intended. Which isn't always a bad thing though.

    On the rare occasion that I feel I've acchieved an authentic expression of myself through music it is perfection in my eye's.

    All of that isn't always the case when I'm in the creative process. Sometimes I simply just write and it just doesn't seem to be as involved and spiritual as what I described above. I don't want to come across as a pretentious shmuck here. :)


    As far as listening to other peoples music, perfection has almost nothing to do with it for me. Music is an art, a subjective one open to various interpetations based on the listeners perception. When you listen to a piece of music you either like it or you don't. Something more physically oriented like a musicians technical skills can be measured more accurately but even still I don't think perfection has anything to do with it. What is absolutely perfect?

    Well, I guess at the least this will give you an idea of how my whacked out head works...hehe. Hope it made some sense, if not I'll just plea sleep deprevation. ;)
     
  9. Oysterman

    Oysterman

    Mar 30, 2000
    Sweden
    Who says it has to?
     
  10. Blackbird

    Blackbird Moderator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Mar 18, 2000
    California
    I'm leaving that open to interpretation. Your interpretation of it is more important than my personal opinion.
     
  11. Blackbird

    Blackbird Moderator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Mar 18, 2000
    California

    Care to expand?
     
  12. Blackbird

    Blackbird Moderator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Mar 18, 2000
    California
    Sorry, Bruce. I deleted your post. Just wanna keep this thread on track.

    Good joke, though.
     
  13. guest

    guest

    Nov 14, 2001
    It don't ... when I listen to electronic music I feel no humanity in it , no intonation ... too perfect .
     
  14. barroso

    barroso

    Aug 16, 2000
    Italia
    nothing at all. i like music when it's not perfect, i like when i feel the humanity in the music and for me humanity is far from perfection. i like easy improvisation, high energy music. maybe the most interesting aspect i like is simplicity. it's a natural thing. water and electricity always follow the easiest way, not the shortest nor the hardest. it's maybe for this main reason that i don' like virtuosism. i can appreciate some aspect of a virtuoso player, be amazed by the technique, but i don't listen to hin a second time. so to answer to yout question i say:
    simplicity.
     
  15. guest

    guest

    Nov 14, 2001
    that's what I meant ; when you play music you "transport" feelings. If it's too perfect then you just produce waves in the air .
     
  16. Oysterman

    Oysterman

    Mar 30, 2000
    Sweden
    Without knowing what "perfect" really means in this thread, I just base my judgements on my intuitive feelings.

    The thing is, I am constantly overwhelmed by an ocean of music that one possibly couldn't define as "perfect" in any sense. Be it poor production, poor performances, poor song ideas or just a hollow and merely disturbing attitude that ruins the picture and makes the result as a whole less than stellar. However, even though this music isn't perfect, one can still find something to enjoy in a lot of the material. It might not be something that you remember till the day you die, but it will give you a temporary enjoyment and perhaps inject a creative energy boost into you, making you want to implement a nuance of what you've just heard into your own style.

    If I try really hard, I think I can find something interesting or good in all kinds of junk, making less than "perfect" music useful to me. So, music doesn't have to be perfect - it's just that big record companies hire top producers and let the artists polish their products to perfection so it will be less offensive/easier to access/reach a larger audience. Easier to digest. I don't necessarily need that, although I appreciate a good production. However, a production can't really polish a turd into a star, so in some pieces of music production is the only thing that's any good with it. This is IMO often the case with sleazy, clichéd top-40 pop tunes, which are less than perfect because the music is dull and unimaginative, but still has a good production to enjoy!

    So all in all, music doesn't have to be perfect. It's just a bonus if it happens to be... although I can't give an example right now - is there really such a thing as "perfect" in real life, with anything?
     
  17. i kind of have to sell out and agree with the man on this one... although i'm a bit outta my league and have no idea what bruce had said...

    but, to keep it in line with the topic of discussion, imagine you sit down and start playing your bass as normal, with intent to create a jazz/blues improvisation... okay, you keep playing, all going beautifully, in fact, you're really proud of your work... and then, something has happened... you didn't notice when you were playing it, but the song has suddenly become a little bit funky... what do you do...? do you just stop playing, disregard the funked up slap that was coming through, and switch back into blues mode..? i say just take it where you think it's going, let the music come from wherever it's coming from, and just let go...

    how's that for keeping the discussion "on track", as well as arguing my two cents... although i'll probably get change on this one...

    keep it real, you happy people out there...

    simon a
     
  18. Robert B

    Robert B Supporting Member

    Jan 21, 2000
    Hampton, Va USA
    One of the most interesting topics I've seen in a long time and I'd really like to enjoy more replies. Can we please stay on topic and avoid derailing this into an irrelevent argument? Reminder from the posting rules:

    "Do not even think about publicly complaining about a moderators actions. If you have a problem with a moderator's decisions, email the administration at admin@talkbass.com."

    This has been a public service announcement. We now return to our regularly scheduled programming.


    ;)
     
  19. don't be a pussy..

    Moderators can delete all they want, that's what they're here for.
    If you don't agree, take it up with the moderator in PM.

    :D
     
  20. Bruce Lindfield

    Bruce Lindfield Unprofessional TalkBass Contributor Gold Supporting Member

    I'm not in any way criticising Big Wheel or any of the moderators and I hope that nobody thinks that.

    But I don't see that it says this anywhere and I think it would help if it is made clear if this is the policy - I mean I don't want to waste my time following the guidlines and carefully considering my posts only for them to be deleted anyway.

    I think if it is the case that any post can be deleted, then we need this to be very clearly stated somewhere - I can't see it - if somebody can tell me where it says it , I will delete this post!