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another dumb question

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by tdogg, Nov 13, 2001.


  1. tdogg

    tdogg

    Jan 17, 2001
    Brooklyn Park, MN
    ok heres my query, my guitarist is a rare find.
    he actually plays too quiet, i know that most bassists would kill for that but im concerned.
    am i just too loud? he plays a peavey ultra 3 channel all tube head through a mesa boogie 4x12 cab and an old eden 2x12 guitar cab. i play a carvin r1000 with a 1x15 and a 4x10. the drummer plays a 10 ply pearl masters series drumset so he is definitely loud enough.
    i actually wanted to add to my rig but i dont want to overpower the the point of wrecking the sound of our band. does the guitarist need a bigger amp? is he just retarded? should i invest in an IRA or mutual funds? will mary from "all my Children" marry brad or run away with todd?
    AAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!the insanity!!!! any help or advice is greatly appreciated
     
  2. EString

    EString

    Nov 20, 2000
    Los Altos, CA
    If the audience can hear you all, then you're fine. I don't think the problem is with his guitarist, given that he is running a 3/4 stack.
     
  3. John Davis

    John Davis Guest

    Mar 27, 2001
    Houston, Texas
    I can't believe I'm going to say this....

    Tell your guitarist to turn himself up.

    *shudders*
     
  4. tdogg

    tdogg

    Jan 17, 2001
    Brooklyn Park, MN
    estring, hearing me is definitely not the problem.
    i just want to avoid overpowering the rest of the band. thanx
     
  5. BigBohn

    BigBohn

    Sep 29, 2001
    WPB, Florida
    hey John Davis, why did you change your name, buddy? Whats the dillio?
     
  6. rllefebv

    rllefebv

    Oct 17, 2000
    Newberg, Oregon
    Simple... turn down so that you're all playing at the same level... so much easier to sound good at lower volumes.

    -robert
     
  7. leper

    leper

    Jun 21, 2001
    and the drummer is supposed to do what?
     
  8. Hategear

    Hategear Workin' hard at hardly workin'.

    Apr 6, 2001
    Appleton, Swissconsin
    I'm sure that's not it. :rolleyes:
     
  9. You might want to look at how your stage is set. If he is standing right in front of his amp, then he probably hears himself just fine.

    The way to fix this depends upon whether you have everything running through a mixer and monitor system or if your amps provide all of the sound for the stage and audience. If you are running through the sound system, then you should have the monitors adjusted so that you can hear him as loud as you want. The front mix should be left to the (most capable, I'm sure) sound guy. If your amps are providing all of the sound, maybe he can be convinced to distance himself from his amp some so that he needs it to be louder for him to hear. You might consider how everything on the stage is positioned (people, amps, drums) to see if there is a better way to hear each other and get a good stage mix.
     
  10. Steven Green

    Steven Green

    Jul 25, 2001
    Pacific NW
    I'd say the Mutual funds and, Sorry Brad, but Todd just took off with Mary!:D
     
  11. rllefebv

    rllefebv

    Oct 17, 2000
    Newberg, Oregon
    Gee, I dunno... Play quieter maybe? Any drummer worth his salt should be able to play in tempo at several different volumes...

    -robert
     
  12. John Davis

    John Davis Guest

    Mar 27, 2001
    Houston, Texas
    I was sick of the constant Slipknot/Mudvayne references, plus it was a typo anyway. :rolleyes:
     
  13. leper

    leper

    Jun 21, 2001
    in response to rllefebv:

    yeah, but drums sound DRASTICALLY different at different volumes. I mean, guitar and bass sound different depending on volume, but its not that extreme and pretty easy to compensate for...drums are an entirely different beast altogether depending upon how loud youre playin, with little to no recourse

    anyway, just imo, imho, and ime
     
  14. rllefebv

    rllefebv

    Oct 17, 2000
    Newberg, Oregon
    You're absolutely right leper... I only listed the tempo thing, because that is usually the first excuse I hear when a drummer is asked to play quieter... I never hear 'em bitching about their sound :D Drums do sound different at different volumes, and tdogg only mentions that his drummer is definitely loud enough. I didn't see anything about miking, etc. He's listing 10-ply maple Pearl Masters as the drums, (I've never seen 10-ply Masters, but based on the Masters that I have seen, I can only imagine that they're a very stable shell :) ), and IMHO they're one of the better, more even sounding kits across the spectrum... I'm also placing some of my own prejudices here as to what type of music is being played... t is listing everything from Bach to Tool to Dream Theatre... obviously different volume needs...

    IME, it has always been easier, (much, much easier), for a band as a whole to achieve a better sound with lower volumes than for everybody to start off playing as loud as they feel they need. Again, all this is just an opinion...

    -robert
     
  15. leper

    leper

    Jun 21, 2001
    an opinion I share to a point...i find if its just really really quiet the sound suffers the opposite way of everyone just cranked up. its all about the happy medium.
     
  16. just tell him to turn up. simple ?
    Mate at least it's better than the alternative. I had a guitarist who had full on Marshall Stack all tube 125Watts and he used to just crank it at every gig no matter how small the room. People used to complain that they couldn't hear anything but the guitarist. not even the drummer. It used to overpower all the P.As. and we couldn't tell him to turn down becuase he would get all defensive and say, this is an actuall quote "how dare you, don't ever insult me like that before a gig, I should turn you off all together" how about that for a screwed up guitarist. obviously I quitt that band in a hurry
     
  17. rllefebv

    rllefebv

    Oct 17, 2000
    Newberg, Oregon
    My absolute last post on the subject of drummers. Tdogg... sorry for hijacking the thread :)

    I guess that I should have qualified the volume issue... sorry for assuming that everyone would know what I was getting at. I'm lame like that sometimes... I guess I would define quiet volume as folks being able to carry on a conversation in a club without having to yell... Talk loudly and lean towards each other, yes, but not deafening... That said...

    Okay, yesterday I had the opportunity to talk to four different drummers, one that I work closely with, and three others at my bi-weekly blues jam, (not too worry, I had enough beer to keep them interested :D )...

    Much to my dismay, they were more concerned about the way their drums sounded than I was giving them credit for... One, (my work buddy) felt that his drums sounded best played with a softer touch and then miked through the PA for volume. He plays Pearl Exports in a 50's through 90's cover band and is very rock solid. He is also the only formally trained percussionist that I talked to, so maybe that has something to do with it. On to the blues jam...

    One of the guys is the drummer that I have been playing steadily for the past 6 years, both in a blues band and currently in a classic rock cover band. His preference was 'whatever works for the song' and IMO, he sounds excellent at any volume, quiet or loud.

    The other two guys were what I would call loud players, and both felt that their drums sounded better the harder they played... One guy was playing those clear Ludwigs like Bonzo used to play, and IMO they sound kinda poor at any volume, although there was improvement at louder volumes. He's currently without a gig...

    The last guy said he likes to hit really hard, but uses different heads and lighter sticks so he can play hard and not be overpowering :rolleyes:... I didn't really see the point of using heads and sticks to compensate rather than just playing a little easier, but I'm not a drummer. This guy is a killer rock drummer and he's not too bad at bringing some dynamics to the table... his preference is for loudness though...

    Leper, I owe you an apology. After talking to these guys, it seems sound was important to them, and three of them are comfortable at playing loud, two even preferring it. It was a nice jam in that I was the only bass player to show... coulda done with a few less guitar players! There was one in particular that I should hook up with tdogg... loud as you wanna be!!!

    Have fun,
    -robert
     
  18. tdogg

    tdogg

    Jan 17, 2001
    Brooklyn Park, MN
    i need to correct myself on something....i was
    at my drummers house and realized that his pearl
    masters are 8-ply not 10.....still loud though.
    one of our more recent shows was clocked at an event 120db ten feet back from stage and the drums only had a kick mic and an overhead, the mix was about right