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another rig opinion poll

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by K Dubbs, Apr 7, 2002.

  1. The Acme rig detailed below

    8 vote(s)
  2. The Avatar rig detailed below

    12 vote(s)
  1. K Dubbs

    K Dubbs Just graduated from OSU, Go Bucks!

    Mar 16, 2002
    Toledo, Ohio
    After a lot of looking around, i'v narrowed my prospective rigs down to two choices. Maybe the input of you guys can sway me one way or another.

    Contestant 1:
    Sansamp RBI preamp
    Samson Servo S1000 (1000 watt bridged 8 ohm)
    Acme Low B4 8 ohm model

    Contestant 2:
    Sansamp RBI preamp
    Crown XLS 402
    (with 2 bannana plug to 1/4 adaptors)
    Nady GEQ 131 (31 band graphic EQ)
    Avatar 210 8 ohm\_____(Channel 1) 400 watts 4 ohm shared
    Avatar 112 8 ohm/
    Avatar 115-------------(Channel 2) 260 watts 8 ohm

    Both setups will cost me around the same amount.
    Any opinions?
  2. Gman


    Jan 4, 2000
    Indianapolis, IN
    I'd opt for #2, just because I'm too damned sorry to carry the 410.:oops:

    And because I own an Avatar cab, and think they're alot of bang for the buck.

  3. Jeff Moote

    Jeff Moote Supporting Member

    Oct 11, 2001
    Beamsville, ON, Canada
    Good point, but throw both rigs on a cart or casters and it becomes different. I dunno... Stack like #2 could be awkwerd. I'm all for a single 410/212 (or 2x210, 2x112, etc)
  4. Jeff in TX

    Jeff in TX Supporting Member

    Nov 1, 2000
    Lone Star State
    I am not familure with Avatar, but own 2 Acme Low-B2 cabinets and love 'em. Something you might consider is looking at the QSC PLX 2402 amp.

    Good luck!
  5. K Dubbs

    K Dubbs Just graduated from OSU, Go Bucks!

    Mar 16, 2002
    Toledo, Ohio
    come on guys, there's gotta be a few more people here with an opinion. all the peeps that looked at this post but didn't respond, do u think both setups are crappy ideas? gimme some words
  6. One advantage of setup 2 is your flexibility to do multiple speaker placements. If for example you play with 2 guitarists - you can set up the 2x10 and the 1x15 as your reference rig behind you and then branch out the 1x12 to the other side of the stage. You'll have more efficient sound dispersion and you won't have to drive the amp as hard to get your sound out there.

    Really depends on what your priorities are: I think setup 1 would give you a flatter response and a more hi-fi sound, so good for jazz /funk / r&b. I play rock covers so personally set up 2 appeals to me more.
  7. Quadzilla

    Quadzilla Supporting Member

    Should I even post my opinion here? Well, ok I will. Option #2 dammit. :eek: :D
  8. incubus2432


    Mar 21, 2002
    Grafton, Ohio
    Of the two........I would go with the Acme setup. You may want to re-think the power amp though. I've heard some less than flattering comments on the Samson power amps (unreliable, noisey). Consider the Carvin or RMX series QSC (for value) or look at some used like Carver, Ashly, Stewart (great amps that can be had for a reasonable sum used). You'll probably need more power than the 1000 watts to drive the Acme. I have 2 Low B-2's with 500 watts each at 4 ohms and am at the edge of not having acceptable power. Maybe consider getting the B-4 at 4 ohms and you'll get more power from the amp. The Acme cabs do sound amazing (for a big or small cabinet). I'm still deciding if I'm keeping mine or not (depends on how much more power I need). The power requirement depends on the kind of band you are in I suppose, I'm in a metal band and like I said.......with 500 watts each I may need a little more. Don't let people discourage you on the Acme's because they are power hungry...........they do get very loud (just maybe not very loud enough). You can definitely "feel" the bass but some eq tweaking helps to hear it better.
    The Sansamp RBI is a nice preamp especially for the price........I decided I liked the Ampeg SVP-Pro a little more (so I bought it) but it was also more expensive.
    I've been hearing good things on the Avatar on this site but for my own reasons I'd avoid them (I don't like the construction of the cabinets personally). Good Luck.........

    Edit..........to clarify........I still recommend the Acme's eventhough I may return mine because I already have a great power amp (Ashly FET -2000M) and I'm not sure I want to replace it (it has been good to me:) )....if I didn't have an amp yet or could return mine (anyone have a 10 year return policy?) I would definitely keep the Acme's and just get a stronger amp........well, it makes sense to me :p
  9. Quadzilla

    Quadzilla Supporting Member

    What don't you like about the construction? There is not much to pick at as I see it. 3/4" plywood with daedod (interlocked) joints, the black carpet is put on very well with no lumps, etc and is very durable, mylex crossover and switchcraft jacks/jackplate, Eminence Deltas and Kappas (not the cheap Eminences like Carvin uses), thick gauge wire inside, same corner proctectors the SWR uses, etc ,etc.. What's not to like about the construction?
  10. Brendan


    Jun 18, 2000
    Austin, TX
    Quad, I've seen the site (and did some math in process :)), but frankly, I think they LOOK cheap. And though that may not be true in person, all we have are the pictures they show us. And I know that if it looks like a pile of crap, I'd be a whole lot less turned on for it than if it looked like an SWR or Eden cabinet.

    Just a thought. I'm glad you like the Avatars, by the way. It's good to hear they aren't hunk's o' doo.
  11. Ibanezist


    Mar 24, 2002
    I think your lookin at the website itself lookin cheap. Anyways, look at the post
    "Hey Quadzilla! Wheres the write up on those Avatars?"
    it has a picture of his set up and they look as good as speaker looks go.
  12. Brendan


    Jun 18, 2000
    Austin, TX
    IMHO they still look kinda weak. The 15" in particular. Course, that's the pic. I'd have to see and play one to be a real judge. I'll take your guy's words for it. Mayeb there ARE good deals to be had. Me? I'm happy w/ my XTLs.
  13. incubus2432


    Mar 21, 2002
    Grafton, Ohio
    I wasn't saying anything bad about the Avatars........people seem to be quite happy with them and that is all that matters.
    Since you asked directly..........my opinion is that they look cheap and homemade. It is my understanding that there is almost no internal bracing (or none) and sound deadening material is at a minimum. I don't know of any company that doesn't at least use a "dadoed" joint so that is nothing special. I believe the off the shelf Eminence speakers probably sound good but most major cabinet companies have speakers designed or modified to work in a well tuned enclosure that brings out the best the speaker has to offer. The 3/4" plywood is good if it is good plywood....I've seen some pretty weak/cheap 3/4" plywood also (a reasonable sheet of 3/4" is at least $60 with a cheaper.....voids/knots/splits sells for $20-ish....which Avatar uses I don't know, but I'd guess)The Avatars strike me as a box with speakers thrown in it.........not as a well thought out/tested package. JUST MY OPINION on what I have seen/heard.
    I'm not saying the cabinets aren't great for the money.........I just wouldn't try them. I could build something similiar without too much effort/expense and have an okay sounding rig.......if okay was what I was after. I've had a decent sounding setup for years (EV-410/EV-115) and the Avatar is probably on par with what I have........it's just not what I want anymore. I've also heard a reference that the Avatars are built so they can hold up to a bomb..........so could my EV's (been dropped down the stairs on more than one occasion) but they still don't sound all that great (never really did so the stairs didn't affect them much at all;) )
    Now I have the Acme's which sound amazing (if I can get this power thing sorted out), have some pretty nifty internal bracing, custom Eminence speakers, same corners and carpet as the just about everyone else (with powder coated metal edging to boot), are super light and portable and they look pretty freaking cool too (at my gig on Saturday several people commented on how good I sounded and said my rig looked damn cool too....never heard that before).
    The Acme vs Avatar is an unfair comparison.......two totally different approaches to speaker cabinet design. The Avatar 2x10 is $199 vs the Acme at $480.........both direct with no major overhead for advertising and both companies are still making a profit..........there's room for everybody it's all up to personal preference.
  14. Quadzilla

    Quadzilla Supporting Member

    I guess this deserves a response. I can't speak for the Acme's cause I have never seen one in person. I'm sure that they are of high quality and well built. Now, saying that, until any of you see, feel and hear an Avatar in person, you can't really comment on anything. I have owned and played through many mid-quality cabs (Peavey, Laney, Carvin, GK, etc). Believe it or not, the build quality of the Avatar matches or exceeds the brands I named. Sure it probably could use a little more sound deadening material, which I'm sure if I told Dave so, he would run some tests, and then if it helped, he would gladly do it (if you ever spoke to Dave at Avatar you would know this to be true). As far as bracing goes, I tell ya, these cabs are SOLID. And to your comment on the Daedod joints, not true, a lot of cabs makers just butt em up, staple and glue. That is part of the reason why they need bracing, because the joints are weak.

    Before I bought the Avatar's, I contacted some owners that had already bought them (some from reviews on Harmony Central, some who bought from Ebay, etc.) Most of them were like me and had played others brands of cabs including Ampeg, etc and said that these cabs sounded damn near as good as anything out there. I put more faith in true people rather than magazine reviews or adds, which are obviously biased from advertising dollars (we ALL know this).

    So go spend your $500 or $1300 for a 4x10 that may or may not sound better than a $299 (delivered) Avatar. I can tell you that my band members and others (musicians also) at our band practice were all blown away with the build quality and sound. Oh, Avatar does not advertise ANYWHERE, so there is most of your savings. They don't have a big ofice building, tons of staff and other high overhead. That is what you are paying for my friends, not so muc hte drivers, plywood etc, when you buy the big name brand cab advertised in a bunch of rags and on websites. Off my soap box now.... :cool: :D :)
  15. K Dubbs

    K Dubbs Just graduated from OSU, Go Bucks!

    Mar 16, 2002
    Toledo, Ohio
    well thanks guys. I'm glad i got a few opinions on this. Keep in mind, we're only talking about speakers...so there's no reason to bash somebody for owning one speaker over another. I understand the setups i suggested are totally different in character. I'm just trying to balance a good speaker rig with some versatility (different speaker sizes and types) with a proven excellent speaker system (even if it is supposedly a bit hushed) that comes with just tens (and the five too i guess, but you all know what i mean). i only have so much money and i just wanted to compare good/versatile with proven/excellent/maybe less versatile
  16. incubus2432


    Mar 21, 2002
    Grafton, Ohio
    I hope I did not come across as bashing (if I did, "I'm sorry" to anyone I offended).......I just gave my biased opinion and was only direct when prompted to do so. What I see and don't like is another persons' gem (and vice versa). I certainly meant no attack on an individual OR company (I did state it was only my opinion of what I could see and what I've heard so maybe the info that I got was incorrect.....or I'm just an idiot:D ).
    But I also think that varied and biased opinions hold a great wealth of info for someone shopping around and it gives you something to think about.
    Good luck on your choice and let us know how it works out.

    Also I see you mentioned versatility with the different speaker combos and the Acme's only having the 10's.....believe me....if you try them and the volume is good enough for you, you'll feel no need for a 15" or 18" speaker....the versatillity would be whether to take one or two small cabinets and sound huge either way. I'm in a pretty loud metal band and I am so close to having the volume I need it sickens me that I may have to return them when I am so close to having the rig I always wanted. If your needs are even a little less demanding, I'd at least give Acme a two week shot (you only pay for shipping one way if you return it).
  17. Quadzilla

    Quadzilla Supporting Member

    No badhing intended here either. Hope you do well with your decision. Let us all know what you decide upon and good luck!!!! :D
  18. CaptainWally

    CaptainWally Supporting Member

    Oct 21, 2000
    Sandy Eggo, CA
    how about checking out that new AccuGroove thing?

    sounds interesting....esp. if you aren't big on the 10's thing.
  19. K Dubbs

    K Dubbs Just graduated from OSU, Go Bucks!

    Mar 16, 2002
    Toledo, Ohio
    where does a guy buy accugroove's from? Anybody know their frequency response? I didn't see anything on the site. Thanks
  20. CaptainWally

    CaptainWally Supporting Member

    Oct 21, 2000
    Sandy Eggo, CA
    i think you just have to call them :-(

    rumor is that they're amazing, but i don't know a thing more than that and the website.
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    Primary TB Assistant

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