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Another UPS thread

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by nickelseye, Jun 26, 2005.


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  1. Hey all, recently I sold my Aguilar GS212 cabinet to a fellow TB'er. The buyer has informed me that both speakers are damaged, "the magnets are sheared from the drivers." I received this message from him.

    Jason
    I'm not quite sure where to start.
    You are the shipper and as such you need to arrange for UPS to pick up the cab, which I will re-pack in the original materials. They will then let you know if the package is covered according to their shipping terms.
    I cannot file a claim.
    Of course before UPS picks up the package I will need a check from you for $400. Or you can send me $240 to cover the replacement drivers(check the Aggie site for prices) and I'll put in for the shipping and replace them myself.

    Let me know what you want to do.


    When I shipped the cab, I had it insured for the selling price. The seller did not ask for insurance, I chose to include it. Do any of you have advice as to how I should handle this matter? Thanks.
     
  2. BurningSkies

    BurningSkies CRAZY BALDHEAD

    Feb 20, 2005
    Seweracuse, NY
    Very carefully.

    I'd only return the cash after I had real proof of the condition.

    This would make me pretty nervous:

    "Of course before UPS picks up the package I will need a check from you for $400"

    Did he take pictures of the packaging before/during/after he opened it? Did he take pictures of the damage for you?

    I always take digital shots of the unopened box from all sides, and pics along the way for such situations, should they occur. Luckily, they haven't!
     
  3. you chose to include insurance? so it was shipped insured?

    just say that and tell him to file a claim, either that or tell him to ship it back to you and you can file it or something
     
  4. I did ask for pictures, I'm waiting for them. Apparently, the box was in good condition upon arrival. I was told this when I was first informed the cabinet not working.
    There's no way I'll issue a refund without documentation.


    I just received another message.

    You need to report the damaged shipment to UPS to show good faith.
    I will also report the damaged shipment to UPS to show good faith.
    My worry is quite simply this - the package was covered on UPS damage tape when I received it. This means that they had already deceided that the package was improperly packed. We can guess what that means.
    You are not answering my phone call and communicating via a 3rd party. You are pushing responsibility on me(see your first and 2nd pm) without taking any yourself. From your comments about the packing, you have had no experience with shipping.
    How would you respond to this situation if it were reversed?
    We will go the UPS inspection route, but you need to become involved and do all you can to get this issue resolved. Sometimes things don't work out well. but you need to do the best you can to fix them.
    I will send you pictures of the damaged drivers as soon as you provide me with an e-mail address.


    When I was first notified of the damage, I wasn't informed of the UPS damage tape. I'm not sure what the buyer means by my "comments about packing."
     
  5. Call UPS and see what they say. If it was damaged that badly there should have been damage to the cardboard box it was in. I thought you had to point out that damage to the driver on receipt, in order to file a claim. A perfectly intact box kind of precludes any serious damage to the speakers from shipping. Any shipping damage should be immediately obvious.

    Kind of sucks cause I'm pretty sure whoever pays for the insurance gets the money from the claim. But you can't file a claim, you have no knowlege of any damage. So I wouldn't give him a penny until the claim is filed and paid. No point giving him the cash and the speaker at the same time. I'd think he has to be the one to file the claim.

    I have a hard time believing the "magnets were sheared off". If the speaker worked when you shipped it, yet the box wasn't damaged.

    He's packing it in the original materials? Sounds like the original materials aren't damaged too bad then. And whatever happened sheared off the magnets but wouldn't dent the cardboard. Yeah, right.

    No offense, but the only possibilities I can imagine are it was damaged when you send it, or it was damaged after he got it according to these circumstances. Not saying you knew, when's the last time you tried the cabinet? Did you test it before you sent it? This isn't AJ Love, is it? Seems like he's had a checkered past regarding gear sales...

    Randy
     
  6. It definetly wasn't damaged before being shipped. The cabinet worked perfectly. It was in like new condition, with no flaws. I actually kind of regretted selling it for such a low price. It was also well packed and double boxed.

    The buyer wasn't AJ Love. I won't disclose his name at this time.
     
  7. BurningSkies

    BurningSkies CRAZY BALDHEAD

    Feb 20, 2005
    Seweracuse, NY
    Hmmm. Tough spot.

    First place to go is UPS. Talk to them about how to get the ball rolling on this.

    I am a bit confused that the box appeared to be undamaged, but the box also showed up with UPS damage tape on it.

    While I wouldn't reject the buyer's story out of hand, I would want to be careful.

    I find it interesting that it was BOTH speakers yet there was no external damage.

    How did you package the cab?
     
  8. r379

    r379

    Jul 28, 2004
    Dallas, Texas
    I once worked for a concern that used UPS a lot and they are insistant that things shipped via UPS be packed according to their requirements for insurance claims to be valid. If the shipped items were not so packed they will not honor claims on the items. Is it possible for magnets to be knocked loose from their mountings without the packaging being noticeably damaged? It's possible, but the box would need to be dropped heavily from a good height in just the right way for it happen.
     
  9. Kael

    Kael Supporting Member

    Dec 26, 2004
    Oklahoma City
    I worked briefly (two terrible weeks) for UPS unloading trucks in their OKC warehouse. The method for unloading a semi trailer is to start unloading from the center and try to jump out of the way when the top packages fall. Anytime you pack anything for UPS delivery, overpack it, then double the packing. Always but always get insurance. Your package WILL get thrown, dropped, and kicked.

    Note: marking fragile makes absolutely no difference. Only way to get "special" treatment of your package is to send it air. Those were offloaded/loaded differently. Not out of care for the packages, more out of fear of breaking the containers that they were in.
     
  10. 8mmOD

    8mmOD

    Mar 20, 2005
    USA
    I endorse & use Tech 21 pedals, Eminence loaded cabs, EMG pickups, Jim Dunlop picks & Ernie Ball Strings, BC Rich Basses.
    I have never heard of UPS "Damage Tape" getting put onto an undamaged box, but I have heard some cases where a package was apparently dropped VERY hard and a magnet was broken off the speaker. The story doesn't sound impossible, but the demands for a cash refund before a claim is filed sounds fishy.

    I would just call UPS & place a claim... although the receiver can do that himself Just simply tell UPS "the receiver said the item was damaged" and ask them how they want to proceed with the claim. If they ask, you don't know any of the specifics because you haven't actually seen it with your own eyes. If it's a legit claim, it will work itself out.
     
  11. Lowtonejoe

    Lowtonejoe Supporting Member

    Jul 3, 2004
    Richland, WA
    Yeah, it sucks that for UPS, the shipper is the person who files the claim. I had a package stolen upon delivery (it was left in my carport). I tried to start a claim but UPS said that was the shippers responsibility. It all turned out o.k. but I was surprised about the shipper/claim thing.

    It would probably be best to refund this guy and take care of it yourself. At the very least I would see if UPS would need to have the cab in order to pay a claim. It sucks and I would hate to be in your place. It would suck more to buy this guy new drivers and then not get reimbursed by UPS because you had no cab to show/return to them.

    Maybe give UPS a call and discuss it with them.

    Good luck man.

    :D

    Joe.
     
  12. Thanks for the replies, all good advice.

    I packed the cab first with bubble wrap on the bottom, inside of two heavy computer boxes. (a box inside of a box) The cabinet was wrapped with thick foam padding. This is good stuff, about 1", and I double wrapped it. I wasn't sure if the cabinet would fit in the box because it was such a tight fit, so there wasn't any room for it to shift. I placed another box over the top, so in fact there was three layers of heavy cardboard in some areas.

    I plan on speaking to UPS tomorrow and go from there. Also, the seller has changed the stroy about the "damaged tape". Now it's the over 75 lb. tape, not damaged. Not sure how that was confusing.
     
  13. 8mmOD

    8mmOD

    Mar 20, 2005
    USA
    I endorse & use Tech 21 pedals, Eminence loaded cabs, EMG pickups, Jim Dunlop picks & Ernie Ball Strings, BC Rich Basses.
    Jason

    It sounds like the box was well packed.

    I said it already, but in these cases I have found the less you try to explain the situation to UPS, the better. Just simply tell UPS "the receiver said the item was damaged" and ask them how they want to proceed with the claim. If they ask, you don't know any of the specifics because you haven't actually seen it with your own eyes. If it's a legit claim, it will work itself out.

    And may the force be with you....
     
  14. Thanks for the advice, I'll go this route.
     
  15. This brings back memories of getting my EDA back from the US when i was on holiday

    It was in a hardcase, that was wrapped thoroughly in fibreglass reinforced tape, and had fragile marked all over it

    When i got told it couldnt go in as hand luggage of any type, i wasnt happy, but accepted they couldnt make acceptions, and the guy at the bit where they took the luggage was like "Dont worry, we take proffesional care of all equipment" then dropped the hardcase :eek: :scowl:

    Then when we got off the plane on the other end, the smart bas*ards had stuck it on the wrong plane, it took a week or so to arrive, i got it, the case was a mess to say the least, just the fibre glass tape holding it together, thankfully the bass was ok!

    *rant over*

    just an example of marking something Fragile not helping
     
  16. popinfresh

    popinfresh

    Dec 23, 2004
    Melbourne, Aus
    Does labelling something 'Fragile' and 'High Value' or something to that extent help?

    The whole changing the story of the tape sounds very BS to me. Tread carefully Jason and good luck. Any news so far? I'm about to get my Schroeder shipped over here, and damage is one thing i'm fearfull of.
     
  17. Helps quite a lot actually, they'll treat it much more carefully if its worth stealing. :eyebrow:

    Randy
     
  18. Thunderfunk

    Thunderfunk

    Mar 27, 2004
    McHenry, IL
    UPS will inspect the package and most likely tell you if it's damaged, it wasn't packed right. I insure mainly for complete loss.

    Now, magnets coming off speakers? How is that UPS's responsibility? If you ship a piece of junk (not saying these speakers are junk) is UPS responsible for it breaking? If there's no visible damage to the outside of the box or the speaker box, how can they be liable for something inside the speaker box breaking? This is why this is a tough one.

    uLine is a (the largest?) supplier of packing material and they sell "G" indicators. If a "G" load is exceeded these will break. I've never used them as they're relatively expensive, and I think they are directional, and I don't know if UPS guarantees not to exceed a certain G-load (I doubt it).

    http://www.uline.com/Class_10.asp?desc=Damage+Indicators

    Marking a package Fragile is totally meaningless. Marking it "Glass" MIGHT help. The best thing for valuables is to ship Blue or Red ($$) as these items are put on and off the delivery trucks by the drivers, not the part-timers (grunts).

    If the item was packed by a UPS store, you'd have a better chance of recovering. I always use bubble wrap (2" at least), not peanuts. Peanuts shift around and are mainly void fill. Bubble will absorb shock. You can buy bubble at Wal-Mart or the Post Office. Use the large size (1/2" is the height of the bubble, not the diameter). It'd be worth ordering some from uLine to save money. For a speaker I'd use the Heavy Duty, not the industrial, or economy.

    http://www.uline.com/ProductDetail.asp?model=S-7542P&ref=466

    It'll cost you $250 though.

    http://www.uline.com/ProductDetail.asp?model=S-3224P&ref=461

    $43 smaller UPSable rolls but not heavy duty. Use a lot of it. The perforated rolls make it a lot easier to use.

    If it's a fragile amplifier, I double box it with bubble in between. Shipping speakers is not fun.

    I would not send a refund. Have the buyer keep the box and packing for UPS to inspect. (They'll send someone out). It's not your fault there was damage, and you shipped it in good faith. If he insists on repair money, have him send you the drivers, and you'll repair/replace them, but this is only AFTER UPS inspects the package. I wouldn't expect an insurance claim to be paid very fast.

    It's a bad situation all around. Good luck!
     
  19. something similar to this happened to me very recently. i actually sold a cymbal on ebay for my best friend. i examined the cymbal while taking pictures - it was perfect. so it got shipped and insured by UPS (to 100$), my friend bubble wrapped it like 100 times, seemed to me you could drive a car over it. so 10 days later, the guy that bought it emailed, said it had two cracks and so on. i asked for pictures, it looked like he had the cymbal on a table outside, he focussed the camera on his feet and there were two marks on the cymbal, couldnt tell what the hell they were cause it was soo blurry. i emailed him about it and he got really deffensive about it and gave me the bull about how i had to refund his money + shipping and how its all my responsibility. which made me even more suspicious about how the cymbal coulda gotten cracked....i told him he didnt insure it and he was lucky that i shipped it UPS so it was insured. i went down to the ups store promptly and told them what happened, they told me that he had to file the claim cause he had the package, then he had a fit about that. so i got him to file the claim, ups sent my friend paperwork, and he filled that out and attached an ad from musicians friend about the value of the cymbal and he got refunded the money to the guy who bought it. happy ending. messy journey. i would be suspicious of that guy you sold your cab to. i actually bought a twin guitar amp and one of the speaker magnets fell off in shipping. of course that is on 26 year old speakers that probably havent been taken pristine care of. the amp wasnt packed that great either.so it can happen. i would tell the guy that bought your cab to take a chill pill. he's gettin pretty excited over this. tell him that he didnt purchase insurance so you arent required to do anything, especially since he's being pushy about it. you bought the insurance out of good will or whatever, he needs to file the claim, etc, and hopefully you can get this all worked out. deffinitely do not refund him anything before you get money from UPS. I'm always glad to help out when things like that happen if the person isnt a total *ss about it. thats just a turnoff for me.
     
  20. If the cab was dropped on either its head or bottom, it wouldnt nessisaraly result in damge (or much) to the box, but would put excessive force through the cab and i could see that possibly shearing in some circumstances?

    And another example of not labeling things helping, i got a 12" LP through the post, marked FRAGILE and DO NOT BEND, and the postie FOLDED IT through the letterbox :scowl:
     



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