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Any bass playing Pyschology majors in the house?

Discussion in 'Off Topic [BG]' started by Lowend4s, Nov 25, 2003.

  1. Lowend4s


    Jan 2, 2001
    Im writing an essay describing the FIVE problems with punishment and I can only seem to find four.

    1. A behavoir that is met with punishment may be temporarily stopped-but not extinguished.

    2. Even when punishment does supress an unwanted behavoir it does not always replace that behavoir with one that is better.

    3. Punishment can sometimes backfire and be more of a reward.

    4. Punishment can arouse many negative feelings that can lead to backlash.

    What is the fourth reason!?
  2. MJ5150

    MJ5150 Moderator Staff Member

    Apr 12, 2001
    Olympia, WA
    Well, I thought of a couple.

    1) Punishment is usually generic, not tailored to specific individual.

    2) Causes increased aggression- shows that aggression is a way to cope with problems.

  3. Aussie Mark

    Aussie Mark I come from a land down under

    Oct 26, 2002
    Sydney, Oz
    Endorsing Artist: Fender; O'Neill Amps; Cave Passive Pedals
    5. Some people enjoy it
  4. Figjam


    Aug 5, 2003
    Boston, MA
    (Im thinking of majoring in psycology, should i? Its that or architecture. WHich one do you think will provide a better future?)
  5. Lowend4s


    Jan 2, 2001
    Pysch is very interesting
  6. LiquidMidnight


    Dec 25, 2000
    Well, one of the problems is the behavior that is being punished could be caused by the individual's congitive background, and this could make them exempt from any moral rationale. The flip side of that coin is people can claim moral ignorance which results in the old cliche of blaming the parents/the school/the video games/the rest of society/ect. If you want an example of this point, just look at the recent trail of the DC Snipers.

    Also, you can cite different cultural backgrounds as basis of punishment. There was a really good article about what is considred "diviant behavior" and cultural differences in Skeptic magazine. (Vol. 8 No: 3 2000)

    p.s. I too am planning on majoring in Pysch. Going to be checking out Lock Haven Univ in a few weeks, hopefully. :)
  7. Finger Blister

    Finger Blister

    Jul 8, 2003
    Sign on Pavlov's Door: Don't Ring; Please Knock.

    Limitations of Punishment
    - Demonstrates what behavior is wrong, but doesn't help organism to determine what to do instead
    - Physical punishments can injure or kill
    - In humans they lead to imitation of the punisher, aggression
    - Frequent criticism reduces self-esteem in humans, damages interpersonal relations
    Alternatives to Punishment
    - Removing the reward for undesirable behaviors & rewarding desired ones may be more effective
    - Behavior Modification:
    ~Using a combination of learning techniques to alter behavior
    ~Includes token economies & time-outs
    Alternatives to Punishment
    - Token Economies:
    ~Involve giving tokens that are redeemable for desired privileges or objects as rewards
    ~Effective as long as the rewards continue
    - Time Outs:
    Involve removing a person from the rewarding situation in response to undesirable behavior
    But, humans aren’t rats...
    - Humans form hypotheses, and humans can learn through observation.
    - Hypothesis Testing: The actual stimulus is not as important to human behavior as humans' hypotheses about the stimulus
    - Insight Learning: Sudden recognition of how problem elements fit together in a solution. Found extensively in apes and humans.
  8. nonsqtr

    nonsqtr The emperor has no clothes!

    Aug 29, 2003
    Burbank CA USA
    Yes, I seem to remember the issue of "superstitious behavior" in the operant model. The point being that the punishment has to be highly correlated to the act that triggered it, in other words the subject has to "know what it did wrong". With stupid animals like pigeons, this correlation can very easily be broken or replaced with some other coincidental behavior or event.
  9. punishment can often produce a false respsonse from the person being punished, just to put an end to or forestall future punishment.

    Punishment, when used as a single tool, promotes passive-aggressive behavior. The punished will always be looking for payback opportunities towards the punisher.
  10. Bass player? yep... psych major? yep...in the house? yep! I was forced to leave TB for a while and upon my return I find a thread addressed to me, how cool is that? :D

    Considering my behavior therapy class this semester, I should be an expert in this subject...

    - Your first point is the most important: punishment does NOT eliminate behavior, it only suppresses it. Only extinction eliminates behavior.

    - For the above reason, punishment is ineffective unless it's applied indefinitely; otherwise the behavior will return when punishment is stopped. (A good example of this is aversion treatment for alcoholism using shocks; it pretty much just doesn't work)

    - Punishment is tied to environment; behavior suppression usually won't generalize to other situations.

    - To be effective at all, punishment usually has to be pretty severe. This has problems I'm sure you can figure out.

    - Punishment also has to occur almost simultaneously with the behavior; effectiveness drops like a rock with time. There's also the problem of the punishment being misattributed to the wrong behavior if it's not instantaneous.

    - Somebody else mentioned the conditioned emotional response issues.

    This stuff is all basic behaviorism/operant conditioning. There are added complexities that I don't have time to address (Finger Blister alluded to some of them in his post), but I got the impression your essay seems to be focusing on behaviorist fundamentals. I'm not sure what five specific issues you would choose to focus on...might want to check your notes for a bulleted list or something (though you probably did); your prof might have a different view of what's most important than me/mine. Hope this helped.
  11. Finger Blister

    Finger Blister

    Jul 8, 2003
    *throws Psychology Master's Degree in trash*
  12. Huh? :confused:
  13. Primary

    Primary TB Assistant

    Here are some related products that TB members are talking about. Clicking on a product will take you to TB’s partner, Primary, where you can find links to TB discussions about these products.

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