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Any History Buffs? (Aristotle/Primum Mobile/etc. Question)

Discussion in 'Off Topic [BG]' started by Aaron, Oct 9, 2005.


  1. Aaron

    Aaron

    Jun 2, 2001
    Bellingham, WA
    I've been searching harder that Caine in Kung Fu to find the truth -

    I've been trying to figure out when the first time the primum mobile (sphere of the prime mover/first mover/unmoving mover) was introduced as independent sphere from the firmament. Or even if the primum mobile has always been the ninth sphere since Aristotle's time. The earliest illustrated models I've found still have the empyrean heaven beyond the primum mobile layer which probably date back around Aquinas' time.

    Anyone have a clue?
     
  2. westland

    westland

    Oct 8, 2004
    Hong Kong
    The Pythagorians were the first to write down the 'sphere within a sphere' model of the universe, but they may have inherited it from earlier Egyptian mystics. Anyway their concept was an outer 'Olympos' sphere that would be like your prime mover (though the actual prime mover concept is Aristotilian, from Metaphysics, Physics, De Caelo (On the Heavens) and Simplicius' Commentary) ... it held the stars. Then there was a 'Cosmos' inside that, a 'Uranos' (Moon) and a sphere of celestial fire (Sun).

    BTW, Pythagoras may not have been one person. Anyway, this dates from around the 6th century BC.

    Why do you want to know?
     
  3. Aaron

    Aaron

    Jun 2, 2001
    Bellingham, WA
    I'm a bit curious as I vaguely remember seeing a chart some time back with the firmament and the primum mobile combined , and I was wondering if that was a common thought until Christianity became dominant (being that it could have possibly fueled as what separated the two - firmament and primum mobile created on different days in genesis.) At the same time, I have a vague memory of Metaphysics separating the two, so I'm a bit confused.
     
  4. I was going with Suncom, then they got bought out by AT&T Mobile. I don't have a cell anymore though.
     
  5. westland

    westland

    Oct 8, 2004
    Hong Kong
    This was Pythagorian astronomy, and one of Plato's teachers (in addition to Socrates) was a Pythagorian; and of course Plato was Aristotle's teacher ... so there is a lineage. The medieval concept derived from Aristotle. Aristotle's influence in the Catholic dominated middle ages I think derives more from the fact that his system was completely abstract and deductive, and as much classification as inquiry. It was more suitable for the Church than Plato or the Epicureans (the other great Greek schools). Thomas Aquinas (nicknamed the 'Dumb Ox') codified Aristotle's system as Church philosophy in his Scholastic school.
     
  6. Aaron

    Aaron

    Jun 2, 2001
    Bellingham, WA
    So the primum mobile independent from the firmament has generally been dominant thought from Pythagoreans up to (but not including) the Copernican astronomers (at least when it became "popular" long after Copernicus' death)? Thus genesis had nothing to do with the separation?

    BTW - Thanks for the info!