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anybody want my SF gig?

Discussion in 'Miscellaneous [DB]' started by c-ba55, Sep 29, 2005.


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  1. I play every Friday in San Francisco, in a piano-bass-drums trio. I need to take a break for a couple months (starting ASAP), and am looking for a replacement. No pay (free drinks), but the experience has been worth a lot to me, as the playing is very good. There's a nice grand piano there, so the sound is good as well. Well, sometimes the crowd is quiet, sometimes it's not. It's always interesting week to week, to see who comes in.

    Here are some samples.
    Dick Crook Trio

    Usually, there's a bass solo on every song.

    A typical set list is like:
    Triste
    Train Samba
    Have You Met Miss Jones
    Jinrikisha
    How My Heart Sings
    Black Nile
    Giant Steps
    Shades of Light
    Windows
    Four

    Stella By Starlight
    Little B's Poem
    Fee-Fi-Fo-Fum
    Gloria's Step
    Recordame
    Alone Together

    PM me if interested.
     
  2. If the no-money thing is scaring people off, I should point out that you can turn this into a profitable situation. The band is capable of securing well-paid gigs, and has numerous times in the past. You have to do the booking though. If you do this gig, you will make contact with a great piano player, and several great drummers. Then, you can shop the group to restaurants and whatever. We had a drummer that used to do all the booking, but he moved away.
     
  3. Ed Fuqua

    Ed Fuqua

    Dec 13, 1999
    NYC
    Chuck Sher publishes my book, WALKING BASSICS:The Fundamentals of Jazz Bass Playing.
    I'll play for free, if they cover my plane ticket and Gage case rental...
     
  4. bass_means_LOW

    bass_means_LOW

    Apr 12, 2004
    Las Vegas
    Yeah and throw in an apartment and car too! Oh, and if the gig's not paying then have the owner throw in let's say......$100 for gas money. SF-bay area has a good many venues, at least when I lived there. I NEVER played for free in a money making establishment nor should anyone else!!! :rollno:
     
  5. Ed Fuqua

    Ed Fuqua

    Dec 13, 1999
    NYC
    Chuck Sher publishes my book, WALKING BASSICS:The Fundamentals of Jazz Bass Playing.
    Oh, lighten up Sherman, it was a freaking joke.
     
  6. We play there for free because it's better than practicing. We used to get together once a week at somebody's house, just to play. We can still do absolutely whatever, and we are guaranteed to be coming back every single week. It's pretty easy to get some paying gigs, but not too many have that perk attached. Playing together every week, in public, trying to keep it interesting for largely a repeat audience, has really sharpened us a lot. Personally, I am dramatically better than I was a year ago.

    If you ever have a paying gig some Friday with some other group, that's fine. A replacement can be found for that week, and you get your spot back.

    I doubt the bar is making money. There's like 5 people in there most of the time.

    It's the same basic idea as an after-hours jam, except it's 9-11.
     
  7. flatback

    flatback

    May 6, 2004
    Bolinas Ca
    ....never mind...
     
  8. I don't wanna sound like the old fart I am, but playing for free is bad news...under almost any circumstance other than a fund raiser. You know, trying to raise bread for a fellow musicians family...you know, Katrina, etc.
    Club owners get that kinda news from the grape vine, and bang,.....well you know the drill.
    Bad Boy. That term RESPECT goes right out the window.
     
  9. It's not a club, where people are going to hear music. It's a bar, where people seem to be split between annoyance and indifference to jazz. The audience is hookers, alkies, and hustlers, typically between 0-10 souls total.

    If you listen to the music, you can hear that it is good. There is another level of music, as practiced by Ed & Paul, whose practitioners have better things to do. The purpose of the post was to find people below pro level that could still handle playing with musicians of the caliber on the recording (fairly high - experience measured in decades, some songs at very fast tempi, some songs that change meters, some latin as well as swing, chord progressions and song-forms beyond the traditional...) that would appreciate the opportunity to have a regular developmental gig and make some contacts.

    I play a good number of paying gigs, but I am starting to turn more and more of them down. As, if it is a straight money for time exchange, my time is worth more to me than what musicians get paid. The only way to justify spending time on music, for me, is the value it has on my personal internal journey. So what determines for me now if I want to do a gig, is who I'll be playing with and what we'll be playing.

    I don't think I'm driving Marcus Shelby's & Glen Richman's rates down.
     
  10. hdiddy

    hdiddy Official Forum Flunkee Supporting Member

    Mar 16, 2004
    San Francisco, CA
    Besides Paul, you should see the Dogpatch Saloon. I've walked past it hundreds of times because I used to live in the area. For god sakes, I think the bar's sign has a Dog with one leg up, peeing on something or something like that. That bar is in Butt F'n Egypt as far as San Francisco is concerned. I don't know how much of SF you still remember but it's over near the east end of Potrero Hill, not too far away from the Car Towing Yards and the Boat dry-dock repair. Totally industrial. It's a stones throw away from public housing in a really sketchy area. At about 9-11pm at night, there is absolutely NOBODY in that area, unless they're driving home from a ball game or riding the bus to Colma.

    The only thing it's got going for it is that UCSF has built a new campus in the area which isn't completely done yet and that Vince Lateano apparently runs a weekly jam session there. I've never been in it, but it seems like a kinda wacky place to me.
     
  11. anonymous0726

    anonymous0726 Guest

    Nov 4, 2001
    You gotta keep the business straight for those of us that ARE doing it for a living. If you're giving it away it cheapens what I do.

    Keep clearly in mind how your behavior affects others.
     
  12. Patrons don't want "music" with all music being equal. There is presumably some increased value to "better" music. Just as patrons do not want "beverage" and are willing to pay more for Grey Goose than Pabst Blue Ribbon. If you provide a higher quality musical experience, you'll get paid.
     
  13. hdiddy

    hdiddy Official Forum Flunkee Supporting Member

    Mar 16, 2004
    San Francisco, CA
    Here we go!!! :D
    [​IMG]
     
  14. anonymous0726

    anonymous0726 Guest

    Nov 4, 2001
    It doesn't work that way, and after pointing out that you're taking food from my mouth and that you insist on maintaining your position, I have nothing further, or nice, to say about or to you.

    What do you do for a living? I would really love to move into your area and terrorize your profession.
     
  15. I'm an economist if you must know. And yeah, it does work that way. Music is not a commodity good, and the low-cost provider doesn't define the market. The value for each performance at each club depends dominantly on the incremental profit generated by the presence of the act. If, when you play, extra people show up or people stay longer, then that money should flow to you.

    I seriously think if you could see the "club" in question, you would understand the fair rate for our services there is in fact $0. We are not generating any incremental profit for the business. Those same services in a different environment would be worth substantially more, and we charge more when we provide actual value to the business. Like when we play restaurants and act as animatronic acoustic furniture so yuppies can pretend they are sophisticated. The fact that pricing varies by environment does not reduce the fundamental value of the service or of related services.
     
  16. anonymous0726

    anonymous0726 Guest

    Nov 4, 2001
    Ah, but giving your service away at one location, regardless of location, makes the other guy wonder why he should have to pay any more -- and this IS the way it works, Econ101 theories or not. Coke is a buck a bottle in the ghetto and on Park Ave. both.

    Just go ahead and continue screwing the full timers. You'll find a small pool of friends from the pro leagues based on that sort of activity over time. And deservedly so.

    Have a good one.
     
  17. hdiddy

    hdiddy Official Forum Flunkee Supporting Member

    Mar 16, 2004
    San Francisco, CA
    I'm curious Ray, not trying to fan the flames but let me ask a question: How do you perceive things like open jam sessions at bars where players can just walk in, play a tune and leave? These players don't get paid to play and the bar reaps all the profits. Maybe the guy who runs the show gets paid, but the others who contribute get nothing except for time/experience on stage. If the body of players that show up are good, then the music can be of decent quality and thus attract listeners who just happen by or looking for something to do. But without the other player who show up, the jam session means nothing.

    I sometimes go to a weekly local jam where there's a hired rhythm section. I suppose that's a little different, but I've seen others where I think only the organizer is getting paid.

    Are these kind of things illegit to you too?
     
  18. Coke is a commodity good. Music is not. And yet coke still costs $5 at the ballgame or the movie theater. And somebody giving away home-made cola in New Jersey won't drive the price of coke down. Coke is actually a great example, because the price varies extremely widely depending on...environment! You can get coke free sometimes, and you can get it cheap sometimes, and you can pay normal price sometimes, and you can pay inflated price sometimes, and yet your expectation of what "normal price" is remains unchanged.

    I guarantee you you're not getting screwed.

    A club could pursue either a low-cost or a high-quality business strategy. Both have proven successful over the years, with high-quality being the clear winner between the two. If the owner of a high-quality club decides he is going to compete on price, he very quickly will not be a high-quality club, and will very quickly thereafter go out of business.
     
  19. anonymous0726

    anonymous0726 Guest

    Nov 4, 2001
    An open session is a more recent thing for me, as in NYC this is a common thing, and in Toledo and Boston (and NE Iowa) they are/were non-existent.

    With all the ones that I'm familiar with, the rhythm section gets paid. Regular attendees are generally cut a little slack at the bar. The music is generally atrocious and at odd hours, so the session both fills dead air and gets people in the bar. I have no problem with this at all. There are a few places (Up Over in Brooklyn, for example) where the skinflints actually charge musicians a cover charge to show up and play. That is criminal and I have no problem letting these sorts of club owners, and anyone that will listen, know what I think. I do not attend this sort of thing and brow-beat any students of mine that do.
     
  20. bass_means_LOW

    bass_means_LOW

    Apr 12, 2004
    Las Vegas
    c-ba55! You've got no idea what his books look like or what he's got going on! You and your cronies are giving away free services at prime time Friday night! Your rationale is so full of holes it makes me cringe! You'd have a different viewpoint if you played for a living! I don't care where the place is located, you said yourself he's got a grand piano and a repeat audience when Vince Lateano is trying to make a living with his gig around the corner. Money for services rendered! Shame on you!
     



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