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Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by bas_anton, Oct 1, 2004.
I´m just curious. What makes an amp worth 10000$
$9500 worth of ego...
I used to respect him for his designs and for that he is AFAIK the only one who posts the actual frequency diagrams of his cabinets on his site, but now, come on, $10000 for a single tube amp? That really is ridiculous.
I doubt it is costing $500 to make that amplifier.
IIRC, it is not a production model like his other amplifiers. Therefore I doubt there are many around and they are probably getting massively inflated by Phil not ordering a lot of components for them. They don't seem at all like a typical tube amp (look at the tubes it uses), so I doubt the parts are cheap to come by.
That said, it is too much money for me. I wonder if any have been sold.
Doesn't it say right there on the site that those are mainly intended for recording studio use? It isn't made for the average joe bassist.
my personal opinion...you want great tube tone and enough wattage to peel skin off an audience, BEAT the phil jones amp's power w/ the volume of 3 YBA200's from Traynor with 3 cabs, get two svt's and two cabs, get 2 mesa 400's and two cabs. Including cabinet choice, these setups STILLL will run you less than half of the phil jones head alone. Plus you won't need a pack mule just to pick up and move one of those things
Well, by that reasoning I could buy about 25 essex basses for the cost of my bass, so I should have done that. I've never played this amp, but I assume that it must sound or respond differently given its radically different tubes. If that is the sound you want, that is the sound you pay for. It doesn't mean it's better, but it will cost you more.
I don't see why people get upset by expensive gear anyway. If it's too expensive, don't buy it. It may just be a piece that is a real hassle to make. It may sound great, so Phil still wants to offer it, but he wants to limit how many he's going to build. Seems like a good (and common) way to do that.
I don't think folks are 'upset' by the price of gear...But, for most, we'd like to think when we spend the money on a Ferrari we're getting our dollars worth. Nothing wrong with a little scof at someone trying to part us with an exhorbant amount of money (regardless of our financial means).
Personally, I've played through gear that most have never heard of...with fat price tags; many with utter perfection as the end result, but I have yet to see justification in any of them for $10,000. Hell, you could have Meyer set you up an insane rig including speaker enclosure(s) for at or near that ticket price! And it would be 'Meyer'! I mean, really...should we even mention Phil what's his name and Meyer in the same sentence?
I've often heard: Perception IS reality!
Along those same lines...I sure wish Meyer would produce a 3-8" powered cabinet/2000w/and only $599.99! Oh well, wishful thinking.
I'll design you the best amp in the universe for $9999...an entire dollar less than Phil's! What shall we call it? Hmmm. Something catchy...
Really, at what point do we need to stop lusting after gear and go practice. Some of the top players could make a Crate sound as good as a Phil Jones...its in the hands folks.
Having said that, why am I cruising TB at 1:13AM...don't I have some scales to learn or something?
Hey, I wasn't downing on Phil Jones' products. I'm sure the reason why they're so expensive is because they're good enough to demand whatever price they deserve. I was simply saying that Phil Jone's all-tube amp was designed with the goal of delivering all-tube tone with TONS of horsepower. In this respect it excels rediculously I'm sure. "My personal preference" would be to use several less-powered tube amps to achieve that same output level because versatility for eq/the ability to have a multi-channel setup/modularity is more important to me than having a single head setup with ultra-high end sound.
I had an old 1967 Porsche. Paid $5k for it. People thought it was a $20K car. I bought it was a hoot to drive... and cheap. I made a point of letting people know it didn't cost much.
Exactly. It's a great marketing piece IMO.
And that's cool "for you". You're not the intended target on this product. It happens.
You seem conflicted.
um, perhaps I'm incorrect, but it seems as though i'm being a little bit jumped on here, unnecessarily. Obviously no, the product isn't being aimed at me since I think $10,000, regardless of quality/tone/wattage/prestige, is sky-high pricing (especially when such a price could be more fully justified with the addition of unique or at least more plentiful features). This is a web forum, a place where people express their opinions. I'm definitely not the only bass player out there who looks at a $10,000 pricetag and decides to look at other options (even compared to players who can afford such an amp, such as professional artists who bring in millions of dollars from touring/product sales). I was providing an example of what else can be purchased for the same monetary value or less that has much more versatility. Tell me where I said this product sucks.
How about you not be so snide when I make a post or two that doesn't remotely attack or put anyone down (and even acknowledges the quality and dignity of the builders).
It's mostly just down to jealousy. People don't like expensive gear because they know they can't afford it. I can't really justify buying a $10,000 Ritter or this amp, but eh... if someone out there can, I'm down with that. It's all about focusing on what's important. Some people have $20,000 in gear ( or watches, jewelery, TV/hifi, etc. ) but drive a Pinto and live in a trailor. It's all about your priorities, baby.
IMO, it really DOES boil down to snob appeal to a large extent. There are 3-4K$ worth of parts in that amp, TOPS. Transmitter driver tetrodes are more affordable than you'd think and there is absolutely NOTHING custom about them. Aside from custom winding power and output tranformers, that amp will have the same capacitors, resistors, pots, switches, etc that any other amp would. There ARE more expensive grades of all of these of course, but the difference is in the order of hundreds of dollars, not thousands.
I'm not knocking it and have no idea what it sounds like. Aside from people who have seen it at NAMM, I don't know of anyone who HAS played it or uses one. Of course, all that adds to an air of unobtainabilty and mystique; 'what is this fabled amplifier and who is good enough to own one?'
The design know-how that went into it was pretty much perfected in the 1950's, so he's not making up R'N'D costs; there are only so many ways to make a wheel. Hi-fi, PJ's background, is based LARGELY on snob appeal and reputation. Something priced exhorbitantly is always deemed superior to something cheaper, whether or not it actually is. Keep in mind, Phil Jones is used to dealing with people who pay thousands of dollars for speaker cables. Unless his "flagship" amp is outrageously priced, it can get "confused" with all the other "lesser quality" that cost "merely" a couple or three thousand... my 2$$$$ anyway.
Yes, you're incorrect. You stated an opinion on a discussion board and it's being discussed. Would not being jumped on consist of everyone agreeing with your opinion about getting multiple amps in lieu of the PJB amp?
So the problem with me saying you aren't the intended target is...? You've made it clear you aren't. Is that a bad thing? Guess what... neither am I. The difference is that I wouldn't be offended if someone pointed that out. I'll do it for you:
You: "Brad, you aren't the intended target on this product"
Me: "You're right"
And I wouldn't be offended
And no one said you were.
Tell me where I said you said this product sucks?
That's right, I didn't. You've somehow taken the sum total of what I said to you, which was not meant to be taken as anything more than a simple observation and run up a pretty good head of steam with it. I said to you:
"And that's cool "for you". You're not the intended target on this product. It happens".
That's all. See the humor in this now? You stated what you would do INSTEAD OF being interested in this PJB. That would make you, by your own statement, NOT someone Phil would expect to sell to. Am I misunderstanding you?
While you attack me for something I clearly didn't do?
It's a deal.
Forgive me if I took "And that's cool "for you". You're not the intended target on this product. It happens." to be short and snide. I couldn't interpret the tone of your "voice" correctly.
My whole opinion on the PJB amp was/is that the product, even if it is selling successfully, could be better seated in its market niche (that being IMO, the "ultimate head" niche) with a modification of its feature set. If PJ is seeking to sell only a limited amount of these units, then I suppose he's producing a product perfectly aimed to do that. With its current feature set, the PJB tube head seems more geared toward prestige appeal than it does practical functionality. But again, if that was the intent of the product, I'm in no place to say its a bad idea.
Sorry to anybody who thought I was posting inappropriately.
I think it is the tubes.... those things are HUGE!!! And they are supposed to last for 25 years...
Cool. How much would an SVT cost to build roughly or a Mesa 400+? Any idea?