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are carbon fiber reinforcements effective?

Discussion in 'Basses [BG]' started by korchm, Nov 1, 2003.


  1. korchm

    korchm

    Jul 17, 2003
    toronto, canada
    yea, are they effective? do they have any effect on the sustain or tone if the instrument?
     
  2. Munjibunga

    Munjibunga Total Hyper-Elite Member Gold Supporting Member

    May 6, 2000
    San Diego (when not at Groom Lake)
    Independent Contractor to Bass San Diego
    My Zon Sonus 5 has a plastic neck. I don't know about sustain, but it definitely affects the tone. It's more growly and punchy than a wooden neck. The neck hasn't changed contour in the year I've had it. All in all, I like it, but it's got a strong characteristic tone that rules on some songs but is a bit too agressive on others.
     
  3. osciphex

    osciphex

    Jun 1, 2001
    I was going to correct you and tell you not to call Zon necks "plastic"... but then I realized I don't really know how they form those wonderful graphite necks.

    Zon necks are made of a carbon fiber composite material; it's not some run-of-the-mill thermoresin like you'd form a plastic bottle out of or something. The fact that they call it "graphite" hints that it's probably something very different.

    I'm guessing they use whatever process they use to generate a big hunk of composite material, and then shape that material with saws and sandpaper and things; it doesn't go into a mold like a resin.

    I know that Zon necks are constructed very differently from Modulus necks... hmm... there should really be a seperate thread about this...
     
  4. embellisher

    embellisher Holy Ghost filled Bass Player Staff Member Supporting Member

    I like the plastic neck on my Zon too.
     
  5. g4string

    g4string Supporting Member

    Sep 19, 2002
    Melissa, TX
    I think he is refering to graphite reiforcement rods. And yes, they do make a difference. They make your far more stable with out the need for steel reinforcement rods or additional truss rods. This equates to a bass with no neck dive, cuts down on the overall weight of the bass, and makes it super stable.

    It will effect the tone, usually for the better. IME, it makes for additional sustain, clarity, and snap. Thats good, right? Good luck.
     
  6. Munjibunga

    Munjibunga Total Hyper-Elite Member Gold Supporting Member

    May 6, 2000
    San Diego (when not at Groom Lake)
    Independent Contractor to Bass San Diego
    Naw, it's just plain ol' ABS.
     
  7. Brendan

    Brendan

    Jun 18, 2000
    Austin, TX
    Yeah, but it's injection molded. It don't get much better than injection molded.
     
  8. osciphex

    osciphex

    Jun 1, 2001
    I stand corrected. What about those reinforcement rods in regular necks? Same deal?
     
  9. Graphite does not like to transmit vibrations. It deadens vibrations.

    I'd be surprised if a couple of graphite rods inserted in a wooden neck would increase sustain.
     
  10. pilotjones

    pilotjones Supporting Member

    Nov 8, 2001
    US-NY-NYC
    Wrongo.

    First of all "graphite rods" are not graphite rods. They are carbon fiber reinforced plastics. Calling them either "plastic" or "graphite" are both technically wrong, since they are composites. Either term is OK to use, if we all know what we're talking about.

    Second, all materials both transmit and absorb vibrations to varying degrees.

    Third, adding the rods to a neck will to some degree increase the neck stiffness, which should to some degree increase the sustain.
     
  11. pilotjones

    pilotjones Supporting Member

    Nov 8, 2001
    US-NY-NYC
    Fourthly, he's kidding about the ABS. Zon necks are a composite. ;)
     
  12. This thread is a good chance for me to chime in.

    I had a Zon Legacy Std 5 that I loved very much. Out of nowhere, It just didn't feel right, like something had changed. So I shipped the Zon to Carey Nordstrand to re-fret the bass and investigate "what happened". He said the fingerboard "settled", kind of like a soufflé falling. The relief in the neck had GREATLY increased. Carey said he was reluctant to do anything because it was such a major flaw. He could not guarantee satisfactory results.

    I called Joe Zon and explained what Carey's findings were. He said that happens in about 2 basses per production year. At the time of the call my bass was 4 years old, past the warranty period, he said I was "on my own." It would cost me $400 plus shipping to get it fixed - with no warranty or guarantee after that. So I decided to unload the bass and get something else.

    Needless to say, I was very disappointed. I loved that bass. During the construction of this bass, I was assured on the phone something like this would not happen. I had owned 2 Zon basses and purchased about $800 worth of strings in the past 4 years, and this rubbed me the wrong way.

    Is Joe simply trying to run a business the best way he knows how? Absolutely. Will I ever buy a Zon bass again? Absolutely not. Too much risk.

    I don't consider this a "flame" post. I'm reporting facts only. I would still own that Zon if this had not happened or if somehow, some way, the product would have been stood behind.



    I am a big believer in graphite. I think it's a great addition to the bass guitar.
     
  13. NJL

    NJL

    Apr 12, 2002
    San Antonio
    you are all wrong!

    it's made from PVC
     
  14. Deep

    Deep

    May 8, 2002
    NY
    Zon4john...Was the fingerboard Phenowood? I could see in a very small percentage of "stabilized fingerboards", (Phenowood,Diamondwood,Rockwood...pretty much all the same thing) that maybe the process that's used on a particular batch of the laminates may not have "taken" to the wood properly? So that maybe at some point the wood could have changed instead of being "stable"?
    Even so ,it's a shame he couldn't take care of it, since it may happen on only one or two basses a year. He'd have to replace the fingerboard and frets and all, but that would really be standing behind the instrument. And it's not like it happens all the time.
    My Lakland 55-94 had a neck that just kept moving and moving. Had to adjust it constantly. I lived with it for a little over a year. But it never settled. I called Dan, he told me to ship it back. Bingo, Carl put it outside then inside and the neck acted like a barometer. So Dan and Carl replaced it. Never had a problem since. That bass is gonna be 6 yrs old. I only paid for shipping. That's customer service for ya.
    Joe Z is great also with alot of stuff, don't get me wrong. Too bad that couldn't have been taken care of though. Guess he has his reasons.
     
  15. g4string

    g4string Supporting Member

    Sep 19, 2002
    Melissa, TX
    Deep,

    The guys at Lakland are great. That is awesome how they took care of your problem. A neck from Lakland would be at $1000, if you bought it out-right from Lakland. It is always nice to see a company take one for the team to make sure their customers are satisfied and to see they are concerned about the quality of their products, even if the warranty has expired.
     
  16. Deep

    Deep

    May 8, 2002
    NY
    Yea... I've heard stories even here at TB of people buying a "used" Lakland with some type of problem and Dan taking care of it. That REALLY blows my mind.
     


  17. Hey Deep,
    Yes, the fingerboard was the Phenowood. I had had no problems with the bass until around early spring of this year. Very strange. One thing I"ve noticed about Zon fingerboards is they are very thin. Look at a Roscoe diamondwood board (any Curbow users out there?), the Roscoe board is about 3 times thicker - much more likely to be stable.

    I have always liked Joe Zon. He and I always had pleasant conversations (and I made him some $). I tend to agree that he should have stood behind his product. Imagine the glowing kudos I would shower all over this website if he had "taken care of me." Now, I cannot recommend a Zon to anyone.

    :(
     
  18. And with your user name, every time you post you advertise Zon.

    I think it's a shame Joe didn't extend the warranty. You often hear of companies doing that (not just Lakland), particularly with high-ticket items.
     
  19. Deep

    Deep

    May 8, 2002
    NY
    Zon4john...Earlier you said Joe is trying to run a business as best he can. Of course he is, but imagine if he DID take care of you, like you said earlier? Word gets around very fast. I mean look what outstanding customer service has done for Laklands reputation. And many others. It definitely helps business.
    I bet before that happened to your fingerboard, you would swear by your Zon. It's nice to know you have support behind you. Not that every company can fix everything for free when it's out of warranty. But at least absorb something or help somehow. Every time you play someones instrument you are promoting them.
     
  20. Very good point. I have often considered changing my nickname because I no longer own any Zons. However, I'm only known by this nickname. Some people would lose track of me in the change. I would have to re-explain over and over who I am.

    The experience has really made me put more priority on after-sale customer service. I've sold other basses as well because of inconsistent customer service. A word to the wise!