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Are singers really musicians/artists?

Discussion in 'Miscellaneous [BG]' started by AltIII, Mar 29, 2003.


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  1. AltIII

    AltIII

    Sep 3, 2002
    This is just my opinion but:
    I hoestly don't consider any vocalist a legit artist unless they write some very profound original stuff, or play an instrument. I see it like this, all a vocalist is doing is talking/shouting in a way that is often pleasing to the ear. I mean, ANYONE could do that if given the right genetics, with the exception of opera singers that push thier voices to the limit. I don't consider anything art if it's just a matter of genetics, so a singer is as much an artist as a model.

    What do you think?
     
  2. neptoon

    neptoon

    Jul 25, 2000
    summerville, sc
    i think that's pretty backwards, man...singing is just as valid a form of music as anything else is. the vocalist in my band can read better than i can. granted, there are a few out there that i wouldn't even consider singers or god forbid refer to them as a vocalist. but yes, singers are musicians.
     
  3. moley

    moley

    Sep 5, 2002
    Hampshire, UK
    It's not just a matter of genetics. Do you not think that singing is very skilled - just like playing an instrument? Do you sing yourself? Do you sing well?

    I can tell you singing is a skill, it's something you develop - just like playing an instrument.

    So yes, singers are musicians to the same extent that bass players, guitarists, pianists, or any other instrumentalists.

    Singing is an art.
     
  4. neptoon

    neptoon

    Jul 25, 2000
    summerville, sc
    word, brotha deacon moley
     
  5. AltIII

    AltIII

    Sep 3, 2002
    The voice box is not an instrument, it's an organ. If I could fart or belch in way that's incredibly pleasing to the ear, that doesn't make me an artist.
    If someone came up to most bassists in the forum and said "Bass playing is just plucking stirngs" they'd probably beat the person into a liquid like substance.
    And yes, I can sing, pretty well too as long as it's within my range; but I don't think that makes me an artist. The fact that I can write songs to sing and play bass lines to accompany me makes me an artist.
    Now, I did make an exception for opera singers, because they devote thier whole lives taking thier voices to the limit. I guess I can also make an exception for jazz singers, because they incorporate alot of creative improv and often write stuff.
     
  6. embellisher

    embellisher Holy Ghost filled Bass Player Staff Member Supporting Member

    Vocalists are indeed musicians. And they are as much an artist as any other musician.
     
  7. AltIII

    AltIII

    Sep 3, 2002
    I still don't see it. So is Britany Spears an artist? Is Justin Timberlake an artist? If so, what the fudge am I doing pursuing a career associated with them?
     
  8. Jazz Ad

    Jazz Ad Mi la ré sol Gold Supporting Member Supporting Member

    If you think playing a bass makes you an artist, you have it completely wrong.
    It's not very difficult to play notes.
     
  9. Pacman

    Pacman Layin' Down Time Staff Member Gold Supporting Member

    Apr 1, 2000
    Omaha, Nebraska
    Endorsing Artist: Roscoe Guitars, DR Strings, Aguilar Amplification
    Is Fieldy an artist? Are you an artist? I think it's much harder to sing well than play bass well. All you have to do is put your finger in the right place on your axe and you're in tune. Not so for the singer.

    Bottom line is, as you've shown, there are bad singers (and bad musicians - as I've shown) everywhere. There are also good ones.

    Look up Ella Fitzgerald, Mel Torme, Karrin Allyson, Tierney Sutton, et al. Broaden your horizons, young man, there is much to learn.
     
  10. Pacman

    Pacman Layin' Down Time Staff Member Gold Supporting Member

    Apr 1, 2000
    Omaha, Nebraska
    Endorsing Artist: Roscoe Guitars, DR Strings, Aguilar Amplification
    Please post something with your singing on it, so we can all hear. I think many of us would like to hear how well you can sing.
     
  11. AltIII

    AltIII

    Sep 3, 2002
    Who said all I did was play bass? I play Bass as well as trombone, euphonium, and, my favorite. I write songs, poetry, and prose. I can also do interpretive dance (now THAT'S a joke)

    Please don't call me young man, that's very condescending. And don't assume my musical influences are limited to punk bands. I listen to Johnny Cash, Tom Waits, Ani Defranco, the Rolling Stones, etc. I also have a fascination with mongolian throat singers and middle eastern percussionists. My musical tastes are much broader than you would assume.

    Now make note that I did make room for exceptions.
     
  12. hmm...

    I'm right now playing bass in a play, and am working with some talented (and some not) singers. They're definitely as much artists as I am. Have you ever worked with a singer that knows what he/she's doing? They use their vocals as an instrument.

    I mean, all a bassist is doing is plucking strings, all a trombonist is doing is blowing air and moving some metal back and forth.

    all a songwriter is doing is putting down words in a way that's pleasing to other people.

    What is art other than the ability to please other people?
     
  13. AltIII

    AltIII

    Sep 3, 2002
    ok, so I over simplified. Maybe vocalists are just as much artists as other musicians. But it's just hard for me to see them in the same light unless they can do more than just sing. Perhaps it's a result of trauma from being turned down by a cute chorus girl when I was in high school...no that can't be it, cause that'd mean I'd have to hate all women of any type. ;)
     
  14. AltIII

    AltIII

    Sep 3, 2002
    Well, not all art is pleasing. Art can be very disturbing and provoking. Then again, so can Celine Dion, so I guess singers are artists.
     
  15. Listen to Joni Mitchell, now tell me that she isnt an artist.


    And no, I dont think that most of the bassist here will beat a person into a liquid like substance if they said that all they do is pluck strings, We would just laugh and walk away like a real man.
     
  16. moley

    moley

    Sep 5, 2002
    Hampshire, UK
    Good point on Ella, Pac. I urge anyone who doesn't think the voice is an instrument to check out Ella.

    Seriously though, AltIII, if you don't like to think of yourself on the same level of artistry as singers, maybe you would do well to either listen to some of the great singers mentioned here, or examine the role your ego is playing in your statement that you are an artist.
     
  17. AltIII

    AltIII

    Sep 3, 2002
    Joni Mitchell writes songs and plays guitar and other string instruments.


    ok, remind me never to use hyperbole or humor in a thread again. I hope you relize that's what it was.
     
  18. jazzbo

    jazzbo

    Aug 25, 2000
    San Francisco, CA
    I think that this is unequivocally one of the most uninformed statements I've ever heard. I'm sorry, my brother, but you have a lot to gain in experience, objectiveness, analysis, and maturity if you truly believe this. Stay with music, and know it in all its forms and incarnations, and through years of experience and open-mindedness, you will find your statement as much of an nontruth as I do.
     
  19. AltIII

    AltIII

    Sep 3, 2002
    Alright, I was mistaken, I'm sorry. Hope there's no hard feelings.
    But if I may just add this. When I listen to music, I don't really care if the singer has a beautiful voice, I don't even care so much if the musicians are incredible virtuosos. There's something more to music that hooks me, it has something to do with the general feel of the song and the mood that the lyrics set. I just get annoyed when the first comment someone makes about a musician is either "Oh wow, she has a beautiful voice" or "eww, she has an ugly voice" cause it means, to me, that they're not listening to the whole song.
     
  20. jazzbo

    jazzbo

    Aug 25, 2000
    San Francisco, CA
    Definitely none, my friend. I WISH I had as much talent on my instrument as the lead singer of my band has on hers. No exagerration.
     



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