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Argh! @&##& Neutrik!

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by Frank Martin, Nov 19, 2004.


  1. Frank Martin

    Frank Martin Bitten by the luthiery bug...

    Oct 8, 2001
    Budapest, Hungary, EU
    A bit of a rant coming up...

    Now I've got a Schroeder coming - it'll be here on Sat., and i have a Crown XLS 402II.
    Crown: binding posts, Speakon.
    1210: 1/4 jack, Speakon.
    Ok, I guess, i'll get a Speakon... or so I thought...
    So, after the classes were over, i went to a shop that I got most of my gear from, and they have lots of stuff, and the guys at the store are musicians, who do this as their day jobs.
    -Speakon? Yes, but the one they had was for linking up heads with cabs, and not for sale...
    Ok, next shop.
    -Speakon? Huh? :eyebrow:

    From there I went to a store, which eventually was the store of EV.
    -Speakon? Yes. Which? 4-pole? Ok. How long do you want it?
    They didnt have an assembled one which was a meter long (dont know if they had an assembled one, either), so they cut the wire and gave me two little sacks with blue, black and white pieces in them. Wasnt cheap, either.
    At least I have it now, I thought... I was wrong...
    Went home, took out of my sack and notice that even though they have the same pieces and looks and design, but one has "more blue pieces" :eyebrow: :confused:
    Looked at it more closely:
    One is a Neutrik NL4FC Speakon
    The other is a Neutrik mains connector :rollno: :mad: :mad:
    Of course the second has the two little knots not 180 degrees, but 90, so that it cant be plugged into where a Speakon would go, and it only has 3 poles instead of 4, but as for the rest, same size, same shape, same design, all else is same, the only visible (but not always noticable disassembled) difference is that the plugged-in little black part is blue, but come on!
    1.) why does there have to be another 3-prong power-cord :rollno: :mad: Idiots :mad:
    2.) Why cant make it more distinctly different, like put some red instead of blue in there - ever thought of this, idiots? :mad:

    Why am I so mad? The store closed before I could get back. I went to other shops which I could reach before they closed, but there werent any. This hassle could all be avoided if they could do things right.
     
  2. uglybassplayer

    uglybassplayer

    Aug 24, 2001
    New Jersey
    Wow, tough day... Sorry to hear that Frank.

    Last month I ordered a bunch of generic speakon connectors from SteelSound.com and made several of my own cables. A cheap, easy (and fun too :D) craft project.

    Peace,

    - Frank.
     
  3. xyllion

    xyllion Commercial User

    Jan 14, 2003
    San Jose, CA, USA
    Owner, Looperlative Audio Products
    So, let me get this straight. You are pissed at Neutrik because the guys at the music store couldn't keep straight what product they were selling to you? I'd be pissed at the guys at the store. It was their fault that they sold you the wrong thing.
     
  4. Frank Martin

    Frank Martin Bitten by the luthiery bug...

    Oct 8, 2001
    Budapest, Hungary, EU
    Well, I usually have tougher days... My last week pretty much sucked... and I still didnt have enough time to make a thread out of it...
    Anyway, this just got me angry - both that Speakons are really hard to find here and that I got the wrong one and it looked so similar that I didnt notice it
     
  5. Frank Martin

    Frank Martin Bitten by the luthiery bug...

    Oct 8, 2001
    Budapest, Hungary, EU
    have to go, will get back to you in 30 mins
     
  6. Frank Martin

    Frank Martin Bitten by the luthiery bug...

    Oct 8, 2001
    Budapest, Hungary, EU
    Well, it turned out to be more than 30 mins, but now I'm back.

    Now, this was a rant, and we all know how these go ;)

    I am pissed at the store, too, but c'mon, even I could make a mistake like that, they pulled them both out of a big carton of these Speakon - and as it turned out, other - connectors, these both looked the same, were in the same size/type of little plastic bag, with small green letters on them that said NL4FC or Mains.
    As I said, the only difference was the small black/blue inside part of the plug. And even they were not so different. The blue melted in well with the rest of it, as the parts were all black or blue - now if these were, like, red, then it'd be easier to spot. All other components were exactly the same. Not a different colour, not a different design. All the same parts, so they can be manufactured cheaply and sold expensively. They looked so alike that I only noticed it at home when I was getting them out of their plastic bags.
    Second, what's the idea behind making a three-prong line connector that looks almost exactly like a speakon if there are already normal three-prong cables as standard? I think its absolutely useless.
     
  7. xyllion

    xyllion Commercial User

    Jan 14, 2003
    San Jose, CA, USA
    Owner, Looperlative Audio Products
    I understand what you are saying. Unfortunately, that is just the way of the electronics industry. What do you do if the wheel has already been invented? Well, you reinvent it. Silly, I know, but they do it nonetheless.

    Very sorry to hear that it messed you up in the process. Hopefully things will turn around for you.
     
  8. Frank Martin

    Frank Martin Bitten by the luthiery bug...

    Oct 8, 2001
    Budapest, Hungary, EU
    Well, I hope, too.
    I didnt take the receipt/block/whatever (d'oh! now, but they gave it to me without VAT, which is 25% :eek: :mad: ), so...
    Also, I have to go back there now.
    Today, I've been to 7 shops at least... tomorrow, I'll have to get up earlier to get back, get the right ones, and come back in time to meet my aunt who is bringing the 1210 for me (long story in thread, short is that USPS would only deliver it here for as much as the cab itself, so it was sent to my aunt living in Vienna).

    But after that... :bassist: :smug:
    Yeah, my neighbours will hate me :smug:
    So what :p

    But, I have to finish my big essay for the corporate economics competition, and that will take this whole weekend, too :(
     
  9. Jerrold Tiers

    Jerrold Tiers

    Nov 14, 2003
    St Louis
    The "reason" for the neutrik mains connector is that it is rated for more current than the little 3 pin connectors.

    As far as I know, most users of it are not in our biz....so no problems with mixing it up...except for you. That shop might have gotten a wrong shipment, I didn't think they were that common.

    I had asked them the same question as to why it was so close to the speakon, when they came out with it. Originally, they told me that they were color coding AS WELL AS making it impossible to mix them when plugging things in.

    They made them mechanically similar because they could share some (expensive) molds, probably saving themselves at least 50,000EU.

    Obviously they must have changed their color scheme.......
     
  10. elgranluis

    elgranluis

    Feb 14, 2003
    El paso, TX
    reminds me of what happened a couple of days ago.. i go o this kinda large music store, rickenbacker bridge in hand, so that they order a replacement for me... The guy goes "man, it is nearly impossible to get any kind of replaement part nowadays.. specially bc rich." I go "man, it is a rickenbacker" he goes "rickren...uh.. what?"
     
  11. ihixulu

    ihixulu Supporting Member

    Mar 31, 2000
    getting warmer
    And this is in amps because...?
     
  12. Frank Martin

    Frank Martin Bitten by the luthiery bug...

    Oct 8, 2001
    Budapest, Hungary, EU
    Because it's a cable used to connect amps to cabs ;) :)
     
  13. Frank Martin

    Frank Martin Bitten by the luthiery bug...

    Oct 8, 2001
    Budapest, Hungary, EU
    So now a bit of an update...
    Shops usually open at 10, and my aunt was bringing my 1210 at 11... the distance from the shops to my home is 30-45 mins... and I got up a bit late, too :rollno:
    I've been to the shop this morning where I've bought it - they are closed on Saturday. D'oh!
    There's another shop nearby - so I thought I'd try it. They were open, but they didnt have Speakons... But they told me there is another shop here that sells all kinds of connectors, they also have Speakons. I thought :hyper: - but they were closed :(
    Tried another shop - without success...
    Then I took the tram home. The tram goes on a big boulevard and there are all kinds of bigger brands having their showrooms and shops. So as I was going on the tram I saw the Bose hi-fi and audio shop... I thought maybe I can get them there... :smug:
    So I got off at the next station. There was another medium-size guitar-and-amp-and-stuff shop, so I though I'd check that too, its in the way. It first looked like it's closed, but as I went closer I saw the open sign.
    -Good morning, do you happen to have a Speakon connector?
    -Yes. 4-pole?
    me: :eek: :hyper: :D
    -At last someone has them! Yes, a 4-pole, please!

    So I got it and got back home just in time to meet my aunt.
    However, the cable's not ready yet, so I couldn't try my 1210 so far, but at least it turned better now. Yesterday, it was raining, when I was coming home today, there was a snowstorm, and now the Sun's shining.
    Story over.
    :cool:
     
  14. Frank Martin

    Frank Martin Bitten by the luthiery bug...

    Oct 8, 2001
    Budapest, Hungary, EU
    :rollno:
    Let me guess... GC? ;)
    At least it was before - or was it?
    Anyway, so you get the feeling what it's like.
     
  15. Frank Martin

    Frank Martin Bitten by the luthiery bug...

    Oct 8, 2001
    Budapest, Hungary, EU
    AFAIK there are bigger connectors for that - something that has like 5 prongs? And I've seen those at lots of places, so I dont think these will soon be replaced by Neutriks


    Well, yeah.
    As for the expensive molds, I'm not so sure.
    EV shop: $7,5 with 25% VAT (so I got if for $60)
    other shop, generic Speakon: $5,0
    Most probably these only cost $1-2 to manufacture :rolleyes:
    What they wanted to do is come out with another product without having to invest more into another production line - so they could use all but one part for that mains connector from the Speakon. And sell both for a fat profit. Pathetic :rollno:
     
  16. Frank Martin

    Frank Martin Bitten by the luthiery bug...

    Oct 8, 2001
    Budapest, Hungary, EU
    I know I can go that route, too, but I think this is better and more useful (like if I use it with other amps)
    I've checked the Amplifier Application Guide at Crown, as well - in fact, I'm using that. It's not yet ready just because I've just got the amp, just had lunch and haven't had time to do it... I just got on the net to tell Jörg that the cab arrived and is totally intact. ;)
    But thanks, anyway :)
     
  17. elros

    elros

    Apr 24, 2004
    Norway
    Proprietor, Helland Musikk Teknologi
    A bit of thought regarding the similarity of these Neutrik connectors.

    I think the reason for it, is the form factor. The Speakon, Powercon, XLR, phone jacks, BNC, RCA (and probably some I've forgotten) connectors all have the same form and so it is easy to make a panel with a bunch of different connectors on it. I know, because I've done it several times when installing cables in for example a studio or a church.

    And another reason for not using the old AC power connectors is that they aren't lockable. The Neutrik one is lockable, just like the Speakon connectors, which is a big advantage. Also the contact elements on both plug and socket are isolated - I mean you can't touch them or short-circuit them.

    All in all I think they are great. I use them on all the stuff I make.

    I do however see that the two could be mixed up, if one isn't aware of it.

    oh, and congrats with the new cab and stuff!
     
  18. Frank Martin

    Frank Martin Bitten by the luthiery bug...

    Oct 8, 2001
    Budapest, Hungary, EU
    Thanks!
    I'm waiting for my Dad and some more tools now to finish the cable... and then... :bassist: :smug: