Arto Leaps In

Discussion in 'Recordings [DB]' started by Damon Rondeau, May 28, 2004.

  1. Damon Rondeau

    Damon Rondeau Journeyman Clam Artist Supporting Member

    Nov 19, 2002
    Winnipeg, baby
  2. Chris Fitzgerald

    Chris Fitzgerald Student of Life Staff Member Administrator

    Oct 19, 2000
    Louisville, KY

    I'm glad you decided to join in the fun, and even happier that things seem to be looking up a bit after the bass accident you told me about. I'm assuming since this thread is here that you were looking for online feedback, so here goes:

    LIKE SOMEONE IN LOVE: Nice solid sound and groove. The time feels good, and the tone is nice and dark - dark enough to support but without taking attention away from the front line. You're doing a good job as an accompanist, and fitting well in to the scheme of the group (about which I know nothing other than what I hear). A couple of things to look at might be:

    1) Note choices: the walkdown on this tune (Bb, A, G, F,/ E, Eb, D, G / to C...) is really just a light reharm of the basic progression, "BbMa7...Gmi7...(C7..F7)...D-7..G7)", a basic turnaround figure leading to the ii chord. Depending on the arrangement you're playing, you may or may not need to play the descending line over the head, but most players feel free to "unreharm" the changes once the blowing begins, which frees up the line a good deal. Also, your standard line on the top of the "A" section seems to be "Bb Bb A E / G..." then moving on down the walkdown line. To my ears, since the first two bars are basically in BbMa, jumping to and from the "E" on beat four seems a bit outside. Maybe a "D" would lead better to the "G"? If your ears tell me I'm full of **** on this one, then follow your ears.

    2) I'm sure some will disagree on this point, but I'd also like to hear a little more forward motion behind the solos, a little more "edge" on the beat, with a stray rhythmic figure here and there to break up the quarter note motion. Again, this is entirely subjective.

    Anyway, if anything I've said seems offensive in any way, just look up my sampler thread and repay in like kind. :D Keep up the good work, and fill us in on the story of how your bass got repaired after the accident. Good stuff!
  3. Thanks, Durrl. Damien put this thread up, but of course I´m open to any kind of feedback. That´s what the sampler is for, ain´t it? So, thanks for putting time to listening it. That was kind of quick, as it has only been up for some hours now.

    1. About the note choices of "Like Someone..", you´re just about right. Anyhow, it´s a through arrangement with just one short solo for each soloist, and the changes were written throughout the chart, so there´s not much to do with the note choices. Well, I ain´t too happy with it, either. But I´m glad you liked the groove, time and tone.

    2. Well, that´s subjective, and that´s what I´d also like to hear more in this recording. We recorded this by first playing the heads and solo backgrounds at one take as the whole band, and then recorded the horn solos, guitar solos and vocals. I would have liked to have supported the soloists more, but it was pretty hard, because there wasn´t any solos going on when I played the chart... ;)
    Sometimes when you don´t know what´s going to happen, it´s better to concentrate on laying down a solid quarter note line.
    Live playing is different of course, since you have something to listen and react to.

    I´ll tell the whole story about the bass accident, if someone´s interested, but it belongs to the Setup&Repair section. In fact, there are only scars in the neck heel of my bass ( and a crack on the top ) to remind me of that accident, and I almost had forgotten all about it...the bass is alive, and so is the rest my family, too.

  4. Monte


    Jan 9, 2001
    New Albany, MS
    Nice stuff Arto.

    I like your tone, and I only really have one critique that would be more a subjective matter of style.

    On both cuts, but more noticible on Like Someone, the feel seems to suffer from lack of forward motion from the bass. I mean that in a different way from Chris. Quarter notes are ok by me, but it feels like you are laying back a lot into the bass, almost to the point where it is in danger of dragging. The time stays steady, but there is always that risk. Maybe that's your bag, laying way back, but I've had it beaten into me to drive the rhythm a bit, particularly when I'm playing bop or swing oriented stuff. Ray Brown and Mingus were both masters of playing right on top of the beat.

    As Don Lanphere said to me when I wasn't doing this: "It feels like I'm dragging an elephant behind me.

    Anyway, liked both cuts, particularly Rupert. You have a nice sound and a good concept of what you want to do. Thanks for giving us a chance to hear these.
  5. Monte Blanco, you are right on that, as always. I have tried to analyze the time feel of these recordings, as it is a little more complicated thang as it sounds first.

    The blowers in this group have a light tendency to rush, when playing backgrounds. I tried to create a relaxed and just a little laid back groove with the drummer in the backgrond takes, thus trying to avoid the overall rushing feeling. One thing that I especially hate in these middle tempos, is uncontrolled rushing feeling.

    When the soloist recorded their takes, they already had that background take to listen to, and play against. As we know, a soloist has a natural tendency to create a forward motion and play a little ahead. Might it be, that there is just enough time gap between the bass line + the backgrounds ( which I think have about the same time feeling ) and the after-recorded solos, so that it gives you the impression that the bass drags?
    When we play live with this group, it´s naturally much easier to play on top of the overall beat.
    Maybe I´ll have a change to put up a live cut later, so you can check if it´s better time-wise.

    Thanks, man.