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Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by Jabba, Mar 21, 2005.
What should I choose? (it's for death metal music)
Thanks for reply.
oh and one more thing
Are these models loud enough especially for gigs?
I think you'll find everything you need with a search. I had to say it...
Are those your only two choices? I'd try looking at a Hartke 3500 if you can find one. I like it much better than the 3000. I don't have any experience with the Ashdown, but I'm sure that's a nice amp as well.
Ashdown. We should just make a sticky, that Ashdown MAG300 > other amps in the price range. It comes up in almost every thread..
I'd take the Hartke eyes closed. Ashdown simply lies about their power ratings. I didn't ever play the Hartke 3000 but owned a 3500 for almost 8 years and love it, 'cause it's loud, reliable and clean, period. Ashdowns didn't cut it for me (tried 2 MAG300 and an ABM300 EVOII), they seemed insanely generously rated. Very quiet with everything almost maxed and even thru a (very efficient) EBS 4x10" cab. Their cabs also suck (every Ashdown "deep" cab I played farted as hell at extremely quiet volumes). I take good care of my ears and don't have any hear loss (and I control it every year) so I don't ever mean I need an amp to be insanely loud, but Ashdowns seemed a total joke for me. I don't know what Ashdown users understand as CLEAN&LOUD but I obviously disagree with their vision. My old Hartke 3500 would blow any maxed MAG300 with the master no further than 10 o'clock (the maximum level I ever used it at -in a stadium for 6000/7000 people-). Ok, now go ahead, Ashdown lovers and start hitting me. You won't prove me wrong, and I'll still hate them.
EDIT: Be sure to A/B them at fair volumes and tell us the results. When I tested the MAG300 I A/Bed it with the "B" BX3000 head and guess what? It sounded as good but kicked the Ashdown's a$$ in the volume departament.
For death metal? You'll need VOLUME. I'd choose neither. I say look at the Peavey Firebass or Nitrobass. Those heads are really loud, and sound really good.
Although, at one time I got away in a death metal band using my 135 watt bassman rig...
(that was a pain in the ass to move around)
I haven't tried the Ashdown, but I do have the Hartke HA3000. It has recently been demoted to my backup but I can certainly recommend it for your purpose without reservation.
I don't play death metal, but I do play hard rock and have yet to encounter a volume problem at practice or the gigs that I did not run it through the PA.
Dang-it! Here's the thing, Andruca: I've been playing a little Transient Attack' 1400 Head since I started back into bass two years ago. I'm only running a 8-Ohm cab (a Hartke also), so this thing is theoretically only putting out only 80W!
This little thing is LOUD (it doesn't put out ANY low-lows, but I'm pretty sure that's the cab's fault) - now I do use full-time compression, and that always helps to optimize output for a marginal power capability, I know. Not only is it surprisingly loud, but when I get'er humpin', it has a tone I really like - a sort of racous, 'nads-y, gritted-teeth, aggressive kind of distortion. PLUS - one of the 'signatures of my sound' is that I run the high-mids knob on the 4-band rotory EQ way up high (like at 3:30 or so), which I think enhances this rowdy tone.
The thing is: I've just gotten the distinct idea from TalkBass here, that there are reliablility issues with Hartke!! I can't deal with reliability worries, as I plan on running a big, loud, full-range, no-PA-required bass rig - I have to trust my amp!
I'd seriously consider Hartke, except for this reputation. I am gathering this correctly? They have a bad repution here, right?
The only other thing that turned me off about Hartke - just recently - is that I was reading the owner's manual for one of their best pro amps, and they said something like "contains special circuitry designed to simulate the sound of a tube head, that actually contains a vacuum tube...", and then later for the solid-state preamp section they said something like "contains special circuitry designed to simulate the sound of a solid-state amp...". I thought that was such a dorky, un-professional way to describe their pre-amps (really!), that I got the impression that they're marketing to NON-pros. Maybe I'm just neurotic about that last point, but I'm looking into amps quite seriously, and have read much promo literature and owner's manual stuff, and that really did dissapoint me for some reason - like it was aimed at real ignorant buyers or something.
I wish someone could ease my fears about Hartke, but face it; they do have a bad rep around here.
I have a MAG200 combo, that I ran with a 1x15 extension cab... total output was 200W. I play a five string (Spector NS2000/5, so it has a pretty hot output as is). I play against a Line 6 full and a Randall half stacks, and guess what? This rig kept up with ease. One song under the solo I slam on the low B, and the amp just keeps chugging along. We played an auditorium (~500 people) with ZERO PA support... I had friends who said the tone in the middle of the room was insane, from all of us (I didn't know anyone in the back, so I didn't bother asking any of them) -and two of them are bass players. 200W into 1x12 and 1x15. If the 300MAG is anything like this lil brute, it'll be a sure fire win.
Heh, I read this... took my MAG200 head (in previous post) to our electornics lab on campus... hooked it up to a dummy 4 ohm load, and guess what the average RMS output was? 211W. We used computer generated tones to keep consistenscy, in the range of 31Hz-5kHz. Care to explain the lie in that?
Ray, very cool.
I've heard just the opposite of what Andruca says, that Ashdowns are very conservatively rated, and actually put out more power than advertised. I can't speak to that because I've never had reason to go that high with my MAG300, it seems to do everything I need it to.
As for tone, I much prefer the tube sound of the Hartke, to me it's much like an Eden (gasp! did I just compare a Hartke to an Eden? ) for which I am currently GASing for.
My backup amp is a Hartke 3000 and it's pretty damn loud. I also own a Hartke 5500 and it's my main amp. I have had no reliability issues to date. As for the Ashdowns, it depends on the model. The lower power rated models (hmmm... 307 watts?!?) are made in (insert country) as are the Hartkes!
I will say this though, if you plan on bashing your gear then neither Ashdown or Hartke will suffice. Get a used/older Peavey head. They're built like tanks! All amp manufacturers have reliability issues so don't believe the hype when someone suggests one amp over another 'just because'!
I used to have a hartke 3500.
Totally reliable amp. I gigged it once a week with hartke cabs for 2 years and never had a problem.
On a side note the Hartke 2200 2X12 cabinet is one of the clearest and best cabs I have ever heard....And I have heard many.
OK, so maybe it's Hartke who lies and their amps deliver much more than what they claim! My 3500 + 4.5XL cab sounded deafening with both pres at 2 o'clock and master at 9 o'clock (and, by the way, with decent enough lows). An Ashdown MAG300 + MAG410T "deep" cab with everything almost maxed (couldn't go further because of the "deep" cab's farting) was dead quiet (couldn't compete with a drummer). So maybe Hartke's the one that rates their stuff conservatively.
I would say try them both and see what tone suits you best. Either should put out enough power for you.
For the hartke, get the 3500, you'll find its a much better tone.
I'm currently running a 3500 through a GK backline 4x10, and its huge sounding. Thats only running at 8ohms, and 240 watts.
With ashdown, I've only heard their higher end ABM stuff, but hey, if the high end stuff sounds that good, their entry level gear can't be half bad.
I owned a Hartke 3500 + 410xl + 2.5xl for a while. Plenty loud but very brittle high fi sound, no real warmth. I also thought the build quality wasnt up to much. Have used the Ashdown in a studio, much warmer, better bottom end and better built. I would say this is better for the music you play. Just make sure that you run either of the amps into a 4 ohm total load or you wont get the full wattage out of either amp. IE the Hartke 3500 reckons on 350watts output, this is only correct if you run a 4 ohm load if you run 8 ohms you'll only get 200 maybe 220 watts.
Lots of other things play into this too, such as cabinet efficiency, eq, voicing of the amp and cab and even the pots used for the volume control, and of course circuit design. Just adjust for the same volume and twiddle with the tone to see which yo ulike better. And use the same cabinet (your own if you can) to test them out.
Don't need to prove you wrong.......and that's a rather short sighted attitude you have taken. Feel free to keep hating them!