well since it was suggested, let's see if we can discuss this on its own thread in a way that abides by forum rules. There are a few orchestras that, from what I've seen and heard, are pointless to audition for. The principal knows who the gig will go to way before the first note is played. I've thought about contacting the AFM when openings come up in these major orchestras to tell them that I want to complain in the event that so and so's student gets the gig. If I do it before the inevitable handing-of-the-job-to-somebody-that-does-not-always-earn-it, then maybe they'd take it seriously and not think that I am just a sore loser. This could get crazy because then every sore loser would claim this, but in certain MAJOR orchestras, it is obvious. Is it acceptable to start an list of questionable groups? I don't know if that would be frowned upon but if certain groups start springing up on many people's lists then we'd know that something is certainly wrong there. disgusting that the world has come to this, isn't it?