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Avatar + Acme + 2000 watt poweramp.. good setup?

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by MacheteJames, Aug 11, 2003.

  1. hey folks,

    I've got an Avatar 2x10, which sounds fantastic, but because it's tuned relatively high (something like 60hz), it doesn't do all that well with my Kingston's low B. Right now I am running that cab, along with a Workingman 1x15 cab. The 15 in that cab blew a while back, so I replaced it with an Eminence Kappa Pro 15 LF from Dave over at Avatar Speakers. The setup sounds great now, with the Peavey Nitrobass I am using.

    But I still don't think it does a low B string justice. Despite 400 watts of power, at decent volumes I still get the red clip light coming on with notes from E on down. I've been looking at selling the Nitrobass and picking up one of those Yamaha CP2000 poweramps on sale at Musician's Friend, along with an Acme Low B2 cab and a good preamp, like a Sansamp RBI or one of the new BBE models. Would the Avatar 2x10 plus the Acme 2x10 work well together? The consensus seems to be that the Acme is inefficient and power hungry, yet puts out thunderous low end, while the Avatar handles a lot of power, has tons of midrange punch, yet is lacking when it comes to projecting a solid low end fundamental. I figure that each of these cabs will make up for the other's shortcomings, and make for a well-rounded rig that I could use in a club or playing outside, running without PA support if it isn't available. So is this a good idea, or a stupid one?

    PS this is my 1st talkbass post :)
    I've been a lurker for years, but never posted.

  2. Scott D

    Scott D

    Apr 21, 2003
    Minneapolis, MN
    yo, when you get that little red light, all you have to do is turn the gain down. thats it, then it won't clip anymore.
  3. chucko58


    Jan 17, 2002
    Silicon Valley, CA, USA
    I paid for all my gear myself. Well, me and MasterCard.
    You could use the subwoofer version of the Acme (Low B-2W). The Low B-2 is going to be a lot less efficient than your Avatar, but it definitely will put out the bottom end. The combination should sound pretty impressive!

    I recommend at least 500 W for the Acme.

    If the power amp has switchable high pass (low cut) filters, set the Avatar channel to 50 Hz or higher cutoff, and the Acme to 30 Hz or lower. That way the Avatar won't be trying to reproduce frequencies it can't handle. This isn't quite bi-amping, but it's similar.
  4. 4Mal

    4Mal Supporting Member

    Jun 2, 2002
    Columbia River Gorge
    Or look for an old BBE 383 pre-amp. $125 or so used and has the built in X-Over. Probably a zillion others that do as well. That one seems to be pretty available and for the dough ...
  5. alexclaber

    alexclaber Commercial User

    Jun 19, 2001
    Brighton, UK
    Director - Barefaced Ltd
    If I were you I wouldn't get the B2W, just the standard B2. That way for small gigs you can have the awesome tone of the Acme and for bigger gigs you can use both the Acme and the Avatar, with the crossover set pretty low (like 100Hz) to make up for the efficiency difference.

  6. thumbtrap


    Jun 26, 2003
    The Yamaha PB-1 has separate LPF and HPF sections instead of the traditional crossover. And I've found it sounds bigger overlapping them quite a bit like you suggest. The B210 gets only 100 Hz and up, and the B115 gets everything from 1khz on down. The 15's LPF varies quite a bit depending on the mood I'm in. You're right that this is not quite biamping - it's more like full range with bandwith protection.
  7. Greg R

    Greg R

    Mar 11, 2003
    Avonmore, ON
    I have a Nitrobass too. The amp has a built-in gain-limiter circuit to protect you r speakers from amp clipping. If the feature is enabled, the red light only means that the limiter is doing it's job. If the feature is off, you are clipping and it will get to the speakers. I have noticed the same thing with my Ampeg cab when playing my Spector 5 string. Nearly anything I hit on the B string will cause the light to come on, even at a master volume setting of 3 and pre at 5. How does it SOUND when the light comes on in your case?
  8. Greg,

    When the red limiter light kicks in, the best way I can describe the sound is 'squashed'. It's as though I'm trying to play a note that is just too low for the cab and amp to handle. Also, there's a definite volume drop as well. I actually like the Nitrobass a lot, it's an excellent head for the $$.... the tone reminds me somewhat of a Gallien Krueger head, it sounds like whatever bass you plug into it with little tone coloration added by the amp.
  9. Piezoman


    Nov 29, 2002
    Bronx, New York
    The avatat 2x12 should be good for the b.
  10. Greg R

    Greg R

    Mar 11, 2003
    Avonmore, ON
    Hard to say if the head is to blame. I use an Ampeg PR1832 and it responds well to the B string but that damned light is flickering for sure. If you're actually hearing something different when the light comes on I suspect the amp is really cutting back on the pre-gain to save your speakers. A more efficient speaker might be all you need to get the most out of the amp.

    Good luck... let us know what you wind up doing. I've been kind of thinking of replacing the Nitrobass with a Bassman 300 or an old school SVT.
  11. Your original idea of combining the Avatar and the Acme Low B-2 is an excellent idea. Bi-amping is not recomended with the Acme's as they're full range cabinets. Andy even dissuades using the Low B-2W in a bi-amp configuration. Give him a call and discuss what you're trying to acheive. Thumbtrap was on target with his filter suggestions, although running a full range signal to each cab would sound great as well. This would also make for a very versatile rig to boot. You might just find that the Acme is the only cab you'd need in most situations. Just my $0.02.
  12. rockindoc

    rockindoc Daily Lama

    Jan 26, 2002
    Bonham, Tx
    B string + Acme = Sonic Nirvana.

    You may find that the Avatar is much louder, but if you run the cabs on separate channels you can adjust for the volume difference.

    I was in a similar situation with my EA VL210, and bought a LowB2 to beef up the lowend. I liked it so much I got another B2.

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