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Avatar and Aguilar comparison

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by DougD, Dec 9, 2002.


  1. DougD

    DougD Bassman7654

    Sep 19, 2002
    North Las Vegas NV
    For all of you Avatar naysayers lets do a quick comparison between the two.
    Avatar / Aguilar
    B112 / GS112
    Kappa 12 80 oz mag / Cast Frame? 12 56 oz mag
    400 w@ 8 ohm / 300 w@ 4 or 8 ohm
    No crossover / Custom crossover
    2 rear ports / 2 front ports
    18x18x15 40 lbs / 14x19x18 42 lbs
    1 year warranty / 3 year warranty
    $179 + 25 shipping / 399 + shipping from MF
    B410 / GS410
    Delta 10 56 oz mag / Cast frame 56 oz mag
    1400w 350x4 / 700w 175x4
    Foster horn / Phenolic tweeter
    No crossover / custom crossover
    4 rear ports / 2 front slots
    25x25x16.5 79 lbs / 28.25x22.50x16.625 98lbs
    279+42 shipping / 859.99+ shipping from MF

    The only major difference that I can see between these cabs is the crossover and port placement. So how would some weekend warrior on a budget justify the extra cost of the more expensive cab? Just by looking at the raw stats, I would think that the sound difference would be minimal unless a fancy crossover and phenolic? tweeter makes that big of a difference. Help me out guys/gals. What do you think? If you take the names off of the cabs and put them side by side could you honestly say that one was twice as good as the other??
     
  2. Brad Johnson

    Brad Johnson Commercial User

    Mar 8, 2000
    Gaithersburg, Md
    Boom Bass Cabinets, DR strings
    Specs don't tell you what the cabs sound like. I buy cabs for what they sound like, so I'm rarely disappointed. Sound would include how well it handles what I'm playing through it and it's tonal properties.

    Sound would justify the difference in price in my book.
     
  3. Quadzilla

    Quadzilla Supporting Member

    The Avatars do have a crossover. They use a Mylar crossover which are regarded as pretty darn good. Oh, the new 4x10 is now front ported as will be the new 1x15. I think that he must be moving most of his cabs to front porting. Just a couple of FYIs...
     
  4. Quadzilla

    Quadzilla Supporting Member

    "The tweeter is filtered with a smooth sounding 6dB per octave slope mylar capacitor crossover and has an adjustable tweeter volume control on the back input panel"

    There ya have it...
     
  5. BruceWane

    BruceWane

    Oct 31, 2002
    Houston, TX
    You can't make any assumptions at all regarding sound from the specs you're looking at.

    As far as specs, what you're basically interested in is frequency response, efficiency, and power capacity. From these, you can get a good idea of how deep the cabinet will sound and how loud it will get. While you've got power capacity in there, you can hit a low efficiency cabinet with 1000 watts and still have less than useful volume; you have to know the rated efficiency.

    And, even given all these specs and assuming they're accurate, they still won't tell you how the cabinet sounds overall; tweeters can be harsh or smooth, mids can be fully present or non-existent, low end can be well defined or muddy. Once you establish that a cabinet might provide what you want based on it's specs, you still really need to hear it in person.

    Aguilar doesn't publish these specs on their website, but they do have an excellent reputation, so I'd seek a dealer and give 'em a test drive.

    Since Avatar lists the exact eminence drivers they use and the size of their cabinets, I can model them in software and get a good idea of their low end response. Since I don't know what the tuning frequency of their cabs are, I can't get exact numbers, but I can tell you that both those cabs low end starts rolling off at about 60~70hz, which means they aren't very deep sounding; they may be adequate depending on your taste, but if you're playing a 5 string and like thick low end these probably aren't the cabinets you want. On the other hand, if you play a 4 and are primarily concerned with "cutting through", they may be perfect for you.
     
  6. Quadzilla

    Quadzilla Supporting Member

    I have the 4x10 and you are right, it rolls of a bit early (I don't believe it's as high as 60-70 hz, more like 40-50 to my ears). The same can't be said of my Avatar 1x15. That mutha goes wwwway down low. I believe that a couple of the guys BGavin and others) modeled it and it went down in the 30's or so... Dave told me that the new design on the 4x10 (with front ports) goes down quite a bit further than the older rear port one than I have. Whatever the case, I'm happy. I've played a lot of cabs and these work good for me bi-amped thru a Hartke HA7000.... Just MHO. See ya!
     
  7. geshel

    geshel

    Oct 2, 2001
    Seattle
    There's about as much room for differences between the two here as can be. They're both cast-frame 10" drivers with a 56oz magnet. That tells you almost nothing about the sound.

    If they both used the same, unmodified, drivers then you'd have something to go on. Otherwise, all the other specs, no matter how similar, don't mean much.
     
  8. BruceWane

    BruceWane

    Oct 31, 2002
    Houston, TX

    .............which goes to show ya, one man's "wwwway down low" is another man's "thin and wimpy". An eminence kappa 15 in the specified cabinet is -3db @ 55hz. You have to let your ears be the final judge. If you want to use specs like these, get a good idea of what the specs actually sound like - play through a few different cabs that have their specs available, so you'll know what -3db @ 55hz sounds like versus -3db @ 37hz.
     
  9. TxBass

    TxBass

    Jul 3, 2002
    Frisco, Texas
    agreed...and for me (on a 5 string) it sounds very solid on my low D, but there is some drop off on the C&B. Now, that may not be technical, but that's what I notice playing live---so I added a 15" cab to take care of that part. It's a great cab, but you've heard that all before on here. And no, I have not played the Aguilar...so my comparison is completely one-sided;)
     
  10. DougD

    DougD Bassman7654

    Sep 19, 2002
    North Las Vegas NV
    Don't get me wrong... I'm not bashing Aguilar (I think they make great stuff) I'm just saying that the two are similar yet one cost 2 times as much as the other. I have a B410 and like the way it sounds. I like it more considering I paid less than half that of the Aguilar. If you did a blind test would the sound/performance of the Aguilar be more than twice that of the Avatar? The Aguilar may sound a little different... but 2 times better? I just don't see it. I'm not saying that if you have the money you shouldn’t go for the more expensive stuff (God knows I would) :D But in this case the price vs. performance factor just isn’t there. My old fashion way of thinking is if you pay a lot more you should get a lot more. I'm just pointing out that sometimes that’s not always so.
     
  11. BruceWane

    BruceWane

    Oct 31, 2002
    Houston, TX
    It depends on what price you place on good sound. Look at it this way......divide the price difference by, say 20 gigs........you can spend an extra $30 a gig and have sound that really makes you smile, or you can save the $$$ and have sound that you can merely live with with.......
     
  12. geshel

    geshel

    Oct 2, 2001
    Seattle
    This is astonishing. Well, not really suprising at all really. But, come on dude.

    Have you heard either cab? Haven't a lot of people just told you that your comparison is superficial at best? IOW, you don't have the first clue what you get for the money with either cab. But of course, everyone's entitled to their opinion.
     
  13. Quadzilla

    Quadzilla Supporting Member

    Avatar
    25x25x16.5 = 10,000

    Aguilar
    28.25x22.50x16.625 = 10567

    Both 4x10's use roughly the same speakers (56 oz magnets etc).

    So given those specs (roughly same size cab and speakers) how can the Aggie go 30 hz or more lower than the Avatar?? Impossible I say even using your modeling software!

    Look, the Avatars have been getting rave reviews from 9+ out of 10 people here. I gotta believe that you are paying for the name with many of the other cabs. Are some of the other cabs better? Sure, but to what degree?? Worth twice (or more) as much? Hell F'ing no! I've played my share of gear and the Avatar's rock with the best of em. Until you play em and hear em, tough for you to comment. And back to those specs above. What's up with that???
     
  14. DougD

    DougD Bassman7654

    Sep 19, 2002
    North Las Vegas NV
    What Quad said!
    And by the way I did say that I own a B410 (avatar that is) so I think i should know what it sounds like. I don't own the Aguilar, but i've tried them in stores. I just don't notice that much of a difference to justify the price.
     
  15. Until you can A/B um sound wise, your just comparing marks on a piece of paper. I played my VT-300A through a Aguilar 4x10 this weekend. I thought it was a sweet cab but was a little heavy on the bottom end. This was easily corrected with a gentle twist of the 60 hz on the EQ. I bet the Avatar 4x10 would sound pretty good as well. I would be willing to bet that with a good amp with a good EQ these cabs could be made to sound the same if not real close. JMHO
     
  16. BruceWane

    BruceWane

    Oct 31, 2002
    Houston, TX
    Wow................

    Impossible you say? You haven't a clue what you're talking about..............

    Number one, you cannot tell anything about a speaker's performance in a cabinet from it's magnet weight. You have to know the Theile-Small parameters of the speaker.

    Number two, you have to use the internal dimensions of a cabinet to figure volume, not the external. Factor in bracing, having the front panel recessed into the cabinet, and the volume displaced by the vents as well.


    OK...."what's up with that???" isn't a very specific question or comment.........what are you saying? I was replying for the benefit of the person who started the thread, not calling you out - I was saying "some people think these cabs don't have enough low end, but here's someone who likes them - maybe you will, too"

    I guess I mistook the intention of the original post. I thought the guy actually wanted to know what the difference between avatar and aguilar might be - after all, he did say "help me out"..........and comparing cabinets based on magnet weight is a pretty good sign that someone could use some advice..........didn't mean to intrude on your "Love Avatar or DIE" party.........carry on.............


    All I've said is that avatar cabs have less low end than most of their higher-priced competition, to which you yourself concurred.

    Look, I'm not saying the Avatars are junk, as a matter of fact I would recommend their 2x10 or 4x10 as the high cab in a bi-amp system. It has been said here often that they do not have the low end of eden, swr, aguilar, etc. That doesn't mean they're not a good value and that they aren't right for some people.

    Besides, if you think they're that good, why so insecure over it? Who cares what other people think?
     
  17. Quadzilla

    Quadzilla Supporting Member

    Mommy I'm scared. Come rescue me from the bad bass man!! Muahahaha :D :D :D
     
  18. BruceWane

    BruceWane

    Oct 31, 2002
    Houston, TX
    Well, hopefully your Mommy can teach you about vented cabinet response and theile-small parameters so you won't make yourself look like a fool again. It ain't exactly rocket science.
     
  19. Quadzilla

    Quadzilla Supporting Member

    Again dude, don't comment till you hear them. Two of us here have heard the Avatars and the Aggies. Now go take a pill...
     
  20. DougD

    DougD Bassman7654

    Sep 19, 2002
    North Las Vegas NV
    So. What’s your point? Fancy parameter numbers and a couple o vents do not a good cab make (Carvin) I didn’t mean for this to turn into a "my theil is better than yours" type thread. I merely wanted to point out that here we have cabs that are similar in size, use similar components (yes I know the boxes are tuned/ported/theiled differently), Yet have a vast price differential. All I really wanted to know is "in your opinion" does one sound really that much better than the other one? For me the answer is no. For others it may be different and I respect that. So lets all just calm down and try not to insult each other.