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Avatar B210 or Neo 210

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by kringle77, Mar 20, 2005.

  1. kringle77

    kringle77 Supporting Member

    Jul 30, 2004
    Massena NY
    I've read alot of threads on the cabs here but the actual difference in tone hasn't really been covered. I've been doing some head to head tests with 2x10 cabs lately. I bought an Eden d2x10xlt and a Gallien sealed 2x10. The Eden won that round and the gallien went back. The gallien sounded pretty good but did not get very loud. I will be recieving my avatar b210 on monday and will compare that one with the eden. I had ordered a neo 210 but Dave recomended the regular cab when I told him what kind of music that I played. He said the neo had a bigger low end but did not have the mid range of the regular cab. Is this true Avatar owners? I really was going for the light weight thing but mid range is very important to me. Let me know guys. When this is all over, I will get a matching 2x10.....the one that sounds the best. I'm hoping the avatar wins because the Eden is very large and heavy for a 2x10. Also very expensive. If the Eden loses, I will sell it for a steal of a price. It's brand new with about 3 hours of use in my computer room. Let me know guys.
  2. Joe P

    Joe P

    Jul 15, 2004
    Milwaukee, WI
    I'll be watching this thread.

    'Bigger low end'? - oh-boy! I'd like to know what this talk of 'did not have the mid range of the...' is about - as far as I've read, I have the impression that NEOs tend to have a 'bump' in the freq response that increases midrange a little across a certain range.

    I'm planning on using Avatar twelves (a stack of 1X12s), and was considering waiting for a NEO-112 to become avialable (which is rumored to be the case). I like the idea of the weight savings, and I was interested in this mid-bump reponse I've heard about. I always bump-up the upper-mids with the 4-band my little Hartke head, and was hoping that maybe this 'natural NEO bump' would happen to be in the range that I boost anyway (I wish someone could tell me what is the actual center-freq for this band on the Model 1400 'Transient Attack' head!..?) - now that I hear this report of BETTER bass response, I'm VERY interested in this topic.

    What kind of music IS it that Dave recommended against the NEO on??

    Thanks -

  3. kringle77

    kringle77 Supporting Member

    Jul 30, 2004
    Massena NY
    I play rock and with all of my different amps, I like to boost the low mids ( around 180 hz roughly) and the high mids (around 2 or 3 k). I also use an overdriven tone most of the time with no tweeters. He said the delta series may be more to my liking. I too read that the neo's had a mid range boost to them. I will know tomorow night when the avatar arrives. I'll let you guys know then. :p
  4. Snarf


    Jan 23, 2005
    Glen Cove, NY
    Hmm, I'm looking towards Avatar when I have some money, and I was planning on getting NEO's, because I'm incredibly weak. I play jazz/funk/fusion. Would the mid boost kill me there?
  5. Joe P

    Joe P

    Jul 15, 2004
    Milwaukee, WI
    Hey - same with me! (except like I said, I'm not sure what range I'm boosting - I have a feeling it's a little lower than your 2-3K).

    Efficiency may be a consideration too. As I look at the native efficiency tables from the Eminence site, I see that the tens don't show as wide a range as the twelves.

    Heck - with the twelves there's almost a 4dB efficiency advantage of the DeltaLite over the Delta 12LF - but on the other hand, being that the 'LF' is specially for lows, the NEO might not have the low-freq advantage that Dave talked about with the tens. Yikes - 4dB?? That's like turning a 300W amp into a 120W amp! One thing that makes this not-so-sure though, is that the Eminence table STARTS at 200Hz - that's almost three octaves above low-B; I'm going to look for some more detailed spectral charts, if I can find them.

    I was sort of surprized to see that it looks like 12s are pretty-much across-the-board more efficient than tens.
    Model	        Power	  Avg to 5K  Avg to 1KHz
    Delta 10	350W	  97.6	     96.0
    Kappa Pro 10	500W	  95.1	     95.3
    DeltaLite 2510	300W	  96.1	     94.6
    Beta 10	        250W	  96.4	     94.5
    Gamma 10	300W	  95.6	     94.3
    Alpha 10	150W	  95.0	     93.7
    Beta 10CX	250W	  93.5	     93.4
    Model	        Power	  Avg to 5K  Avg to 1KHz
    Legend GB12	 50W	  101.1	     99.6
    Legend V12	120W	  100.1	     99.1
    Legend Mod'g12	120W	  100.9	     98.5
    Legend 121	150W	  99.0	     97.9
    Delta Pro 12	400W	  99.3	     97.7
    Beta 12	        250W	  98.6	     97.7
    Kappa 12	450W	  98.7	     97.6
    DeltaLite¬ô 2512	300W	  99.2	     97.6
    Legend 125	 75W	  99.4	     97.5
    Omega Pro 12	700W	  96.8	     96.8
    Kappa Pro 12	500W	  96.6	     96.7
    Delta 12	400W	  98.7	     96.2
    Legend FS12	 75W	  98.4	     96.2
    Beta 12LT	225W	  96.8	     96.1
    Beta 12CX	250W	  96.7	     96.0
    Legend 122	 35W	  98.3	     96.0
    Alpha 12	150W	  96.9	     94.5
    Gamma 12	300W	  96.8	     94.5
    Delta 12LF	500W	  94.1	     93.8
    (edit) Sheesh! How do I get this "CODE" tag to work right?? I'm going to try to fix this up in notepad or something...
    (edit) There: That's much better!
  6. I can tell you the Pro model Avatars kick some serious butt in the low end due to the Kappa Pro LF's.
  7. kringle77

    kringle77 Supporting Member

    Jul 30, 2004
    Massena NY
    Yeah, but how much high end do they have without a tweeter. Thats the question. I have a kappa pro 500w 12" and it doesn't really have a good clear high end. (I don't use tweeters) I've seen the spec sheets and have come to the conclusion that you just have to hear the speaker in real life to tell what it can do.
  8. tallboybass

    tallboybass Supporting Member

    Feb 25, 2003
    Tulsa, Oklahoma
    Dave is right. I've got the Delta 210 and ordered a Neo to go with it. I ended up sending it back because the mids and highs were too pulled back. The Delta has awesome mids....great rock sound. But it's not going to be in the league of the Eden IMO.
  9. Absolutely correct
    No high end without a tweeter on the Kappa Pro LF
    Strictly a low end machine
  10. kringle77

    kringle77 Supporting Member

    Jul 30, 2004
    Massena NY
    Great responces guys! This is exactly the kind of feedback that I was looking for. I actually use just alittle tweeter with the Eden. It isn't clear enough without it. The ampeg 8x10 has plenty of high end without a tweeter. That is my tone right there. Im hoping the avatar gets closer to that. I'll know tonight when it arrives. I can tell that the eden would work great with a live rock band. Some gear is made for home, some is made for the gig. :bassist: If anyone has a suggestion on how to get the tone of an ampeg 8x10 with a pair of 2x10's, let me know.
  11. kringle77

    kringle77 Supporting Member

    Jul 30, 2004
    Massena NY
    Ok guys, here's the deal. I got the avatar b210 cab today and it really sounds good. With the tweeter turned off, if has more mids and highs than my Eden d210xlt. The eden's low end makes the avatar sound like a sissy. So, if you like grindy rock (me), go with avatar, if you want to make sheet rock buckle, go with the eden. The eden is better for slapping too! So, I ordered a second b210 and will sell my brand new eden. I got it last week, played it in my computer room for 3 hours total, and will sell it for $500. ($670 a week ago!) I will post this in the for sale section. Does the b210 sound like a sealed ampeg 8x10?...sort of. Not quite as much high end but not bad. I stuffed the vent in the cab and it sounded closer to the ampeg. But, for the weight difference, I can live with it. This cab is loud for a 2x10! I can say that most people would not be dissapointed. Especially rock guys.
  12. Snarf


    Jan 23, 2005
    Glen Cove, NY
    Are you saying the mids and highs on the NEO were too pulled back compared to other 210s or just in general? Will it have more punch than a 115 (probably a stupid question)? Just wondering if this cab will work decently in a jazz/fusion setting.
  13. kringle77

    kringle77 Supporting Member

    Jul 30, 2004
    Massena NY
    I have never played a neo.
  14. I put Deltalite 2510's in my Fender 2x10 combo amp. With the neos the cab is tuned to 40hz with 2.5 cu ft, which I think is the same as Dave's cabs. There is definatley a little bit of a lack of upper midrange. I EQ that frequency band in though and it sounds more even. The low end is huge though, and the mid bump talked about is probably the lower mids around the A string. The neos have an Fs of 41hz, which is lower than the any of Eminence's other woofers, including the Delta LFs.
  15. Mystic Michael

    Mystic Michael Hip No Ties

    Apr 1, 2004
    New York, NY
    From everything I've gathered about its tonal profile - including the feedback offered in this very thread - it will probably work better for jazz & fusion (with its warmth, smoothness and great low end) than it would for straight-ahead rock (with its relative lack of crunch and presence in the upper midrange). Make sense? :meh:

  16. momo


    Oct 22, 2005
    Huntington Beach, CA
    I have to agree about the lack of midrange in the NEO cab. HUGE (and maybee just a tad flabby) low end. Loud as all piss, but lacking in a present midrange. This is not a complete heartbreaker for me, but I will be checking out some other speaker combos for increased mid effiency for my next cab purchase (which will be an Avatar again, I'm quite sure).
  17. how does the low end in the 210 compare to the 112?

    i'd rather have 10's for mids, but don't want to sacrifice the bottom as this will be a standalone.

    i play classic rock/folky type of stuff.