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Aviom and Bass (buzz saw sounding distortion)

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by King David, Mar 5, 2008.


  1. King David

    King David

    Dec 13, 1999
    Indiana
    Can anyone give me some help. Our church just got the Aviom system. I am pretty excited about it, but me...the bass player cannot stand the sound of the bass in it. It sounds overdriven.

    I have a Warwick (that is pretty hot) and a Bass POD XT Live. I kept switching amp models. Even with a clean amp model it was still buzzing with overdrive. I plugged the in-ears into the POD headphone and no buzz. The mains had no buzz, but the Aviom did. I am not the sound guy, but if I can get some advice to give him, it would be great.
     
  2. Petebass

    Petebass

    Dec 22, 2002
    QLD Australia
    You've eliminated the earphones as a possible cause, and since it's clean in the mains, we know there's no clipping in the signal chain.

    Is the bass distorting in everyone's feed, or just in yours?
     
  3. oyobass

    oyobass

    Feb 20, 2008
    Spanaway, WA
    Check the lights on the Aviom sending unit. This can be distorting your signal. Every two channel pair has a pad control to take care of things like this.

    oyo
     
  4. King David

    King David

    Dec 13, 1999
    Indiana
    Petebass, it is distorting in everyone's ears.

    oyobass, I am not real well versed in these yet. I want to talk intelligently to our sound guy. I think there are 3 pieces. The sending unit, the distribution unit and the personal mixer right???? You are telling me to check the lights on the sending unit. Is it like a clip light or what? What should he do with the pad (I assume it is a trim control)? From idiot terms distortion is caused by a bottlneck somwhere in the signal chain. It appears that it is somewhere between the board and the personal mixer. I am guessing between the board and the sending unit. To me it makes sense to turn the "Pad" up to allow mre signal through and not cause the distortion. Is that right?
     
  5. 1954bassman

    1954bassman

    Jun 7, 2004
    Hickory, NC
    Look to the input gains on the Aviom Input Module. You should have either the AN16/i which has a four postion gain switch (+22 / +4 / 0 / -10) which you probably are looking at the (+22 or +4) setting for a hot bass signal; or you have the AN16/iM input module, which features a variable gain knob for each input. I run mine at 12 o'clock.

    My set-up: G&L L5500 (EMG's) or Lakland 55-02 - into A Sansamp BDDI straight into Soundcraft mixer. This is a pretty hot signal.

    With our Acoustic Gospel group, I use a G&L L2500 into an Eden Navigator and I run the input switch at (+22).

    This should help. :)
     
  6. Petebass

    Petebass

    Dec 22, 2002
    QLD Australia
    If it's in everyone's ears, then I'm going to agree with the general consensus so far and suggest there's some clipping somewhere in the signal chain on the Avion system.

    It's not really a "bottleneck" as such. It's more a problem with the strength of the signal. From the bass itself, the signal strength seems to be fine because the FOH sounds nice. But something in the Aviom's settings is strengthening the signal to a point where it's no longer clean. On a traditional sound desk it would be a matter of adjusting the trim pot. From 1954bassman's post, it seems the some Aviom models have a trim pot, but others have variable input gain switch instead. That's the best place to start.
     
  7. Emprov

    Emprov

    Mar 19, 2003
    Just a shot in the dark but, what kind of IEM's are you using?
     
  8. we had the same problem at my church.

    have the soundguy turn down your input volume (going into the aviom) and then boost the crap out of your signal in the aviom. That way the signal to the aviom is low (no dist).

    it worked for us. either that, or use a passive direct box with your bass (since it's active) and try and pad some of that input gain.
     
  9. King David

    King David

    Dec 13, 1999
    Indiana
    The IEMs for me were Westone UM2s and I think the others had cheaper Westone ones.
    The POD does have a PAD switch, that I usually flip on (I did not check it last night) to pad the input from the bass before the POD starts to process (something Boss would do well to add to their units). From the POD it goes to a passive direct box.
     
  10. Fretlessboy

    Fretlessboy

    Nov 29, 2007
    St Augustine Florida
    Endorsing artist GENZ BENZ/HERCULES STANDS/XSonics
    I have only been able to get a clean sound out of the Shure's
     
  11. 1954bassman

    1954bassman

    Jun 7, 2004
    Hickory, NC
    I use FurureSonics and Shures
     
  12. svtb15

    svtb15 Banned

    Mar 22, 2004
    Austin,TX - McKinney,TX - NY,NY, - Nashville,TN
    I play it all. Whatever works for the gig. Q+
    Make sure that you are not overdriving the multi channel mixing board channel that is feeding the aviom system.... i had that happen and the dumb asst sound guy could not figure it out.... check your input channel and then raise your volume on the aviom
     
  13. Petebass

    Petebass

    Dec 22, 2002
    QLD Australia
    I'd tell you what IEM's I use if I thought it would help, but it won't. Guys, we've ruled out the earphones as the problem. He gets a clean sound from them when plugged into the POD.
     
  14. King David

    King David

    Dec 13, 1999
    Indiana
    Petebass, I think you landed on the Senheiser ons didn't you?

    1945bassman, how do you like the futuresonics. Are you using the Atrio ones? I have seen those and I have wondered how good they are for bass and monitoring. Are they good at isolation too?
     
  15. Petebass

    Petebass

    Dec 22, 2002
    QLD Australia
    Yep Sennheiser CX-300's. I tried Westone UM2's (which I still have as a backup), as well as Shure E5's and E3's, and the Sennies have the best tone for bass guitar by far.

    Have you had a chance yet to go hunting for clipping in the signal chain?
     
  16. King David

    King David

    Dec 13, 1999
    Indiana
    no, we had practice on Wednesday, and I am nopt real sure we will have time to get it done Sunday morning between services. I did forward a link to this to our sound guy. He may have read it. I am not sure.
     
  17. Delta_Petra

    Delta_Petra

    Feb 26, 2008
    Portland, OR
    We use and Aviom system at my church too and I have only noticed something like this once.
    I trade off between two basses, my Fender Deluxe Jazz and an Epiphone T-Bird. Now one week I was using my T-Bird and noticed a very muddy sound coming through my Aviom. I had used my T-Bird plenty of times before with the same settings, but this was weird.
    I dont play every week in worship, so I chocked it up to the sound guy having the EQ on my signal wrong for my bass. He must have had it set for the previous bass players gear and it was messing with mine.
    Since then I have had no problems with either bass through the Aviom. It could be as simple as the sound guy EQing you wrong. :meh:
     
  18. oyobass

    oyobass

    Feb 20, 2008
    Spanaway, WA
    Have you solved the Aviom clipping problem yet?

    Sorry for the short, somewhat unhelpfull response earlier- I had to get to the bus on time. 1954Bassman gave a much more detailed response in the direction I was pointing.

    Gain structure is what this all boils down to. A simple way to look at it: imagine the signal path as a long, open container with water flowing through it. Along the top of the path are several gates that can be lowered or raised to control the flow, (the various volume, level and pad controls in the signal path). At each gate, you want to allow the maximum ammount of water to flow without causing a backup, (distortion), at the next gate. You might think that only letting a little water through might be a good solution, but if you let the level drop anywhere in the path so that there is air between the top of the water and the gate, you won't have the best possible flow rate, (this equates to a poor signal to noise ratio in our analogy).

    Another thing to consider: where a hot signal, (just to the point of mild clipping) is a reasonable practice with analog gear, the analog to digital converters in the Aviom will produce a harsh "buzzsaw" distortion when pushed into clipping.

    On the Mackie board at my church, we turn down the pad controls on the top of the board to avoid pushing the Aviom into clipping. Just turn down enough to avoid that dreaded red light on the sending unit, no more, or there will be a lower S/N ratio in the house mix.

    Let us know how this turned out!

    Oyo
     
  19. King David

    King David

    Dec 13, 1999
    Indiana
    I think I found relief. The pad switch on the POD was on nomal and not Pad. This means that the full power of bass and the pod was being sent to the board. It was distorting tonight even in the regular monitors and the mains. I spent some time with the sound guy after. I switched the pad on the POD and the tone sounded full, but quieter. I turned up in the Aviom and it sounded good. I may have to mess with it Sunday, but I think that will be the ticket. This was my former POD I sold to the church. The stinker of it is that someone may mess with it every week. One of the guys has a passive bass. He may need the pad the other way. I'll just have to play with it each time. Hopefully that will help. The sound guy did mess with the gain on the sending unit for the Aviom last Sunday, but it was not perfect yet.
     
  20. Blues Cat

    Blues Cat Payson Fanned Bass Strings Owner Commercial User

    May 28, 2005
    Katy, Tx
    Payson Fanned Bass Strings Owner
    This happened to me a few months ago. It's not the Aviom, althought you can turn it up to clipping if you're not careful.

    FOH has your gain set too high. If he says no I don't let him listen to your IE's.

    In my case we where switching IEM's out checking cords everything for 10 minutes trying to find the problem. It sounded bad like an electric guitar plugged straight in and over driven ala Lennon in the 60's.

    Right as we play the 1st note everything is perfect. The whole set was perfect.

    I asked the soundman what happened and he said oh, I had your gain set too high.
     

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