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Backplate mounting ferrules + screws

Discussion in 'Luthier's Corner' started by s0c9, Feb 15, 2018.


  1. s0c9

    s0c9 Supporting Member

    Jan 9, 2014
    Ft.Worth/Dallas
    1964 Audio artist, Fractal Audio Beta Tester
    Not sure if this is the right forum area, but..
    I'm looking for some of those screws where there's a ferrule (correct term?) mount that they screw into - same type of thing as a drywall screw/mount - where the ferrule screws into the body and you screw the backplate screws into the ferrrules.

    I've searched google 'til I'm blue in the face and dozens of sites.. with zero success.
    Any have any suggestions as to where I can get them, or a link to some?

    Much appreciated..
    Thanks.
     
  2. Is this what you’re looking for?

    Neck Mounting Ferrules | stewmac.com
     
  3. Chinjazz has one option. From your description, it seems you could also mean these. Inserts that go into wood so you can use machine screws.

    Threaded Inserts for Wood
     
    chinjazz likes this.
  4. s0c9

    s0c9 Supporting Member

    Jan 9, 2014
    Ft.Worth/Dallas
    1964 Audio artist, Fractal Audio Beta Tester
  5. A hardware store near you probably has one version or another. Woodcraft also has them and an installation tool that makes things somewhat easier, at least with their inserts.

    Get a couple of extra and a countersink and experiment on some scrap first. Most of the time, chamfering the top of the hole helps keep the wood from splitting up when you install the insert. Also, I’ve found that in hard woods, like maple, I need to made a much larger hole than they recommend in the instructions.

    Good luck and, as always, shoot us some pics.;)
     
  6. s0c9

    s0c9 Supporting Member

    Jan 9, 2014
    Ft.Worth/Dallas
    1964 Audio artist, Fractal Audio Beta Tester
    Thanks Matt.. I'm no luthier.. this will be my first attempt at anything more than doing guitar and bass setups (truss, intonation adjustments, etc) over the years.
    I have a custom built bass with a [hardwood] cherry body.. with a fitted backplate, also cherry. The builder was having some health issues and I believe mine was one of the last he built - he no longer builds.
    He uses little wood black wood screws to mount the back plate, and I wan't to put something a little better in there.
    My Carvin guitar has the inserts + threaded screws like the link you gave me above, so thought I could do something similar.
    I also discovered that the pau ferro fretboard he used has "shrunk" a little so I have to dress all the fret edges/sides on both sides to smooth them out.
    Also.. I have a Woodcraft about a 1/2 mile from the house. I'll drop in there and see what's cooking.
    thanks for the assistance.
     
  7. There is definitely a skill to putting those in, I use them on every bolt on I build. I'll add a couple of additional thoughts to the ones above.

    - Put soap on the threads before you put them in
    - after the inserts are installed bolt the neck on nice and tight, remove the neck and soak the wood around the outside of the insert with CA glue. By bolting on the neck the inserts will align themselves to the bolts (if necessary).
    - Make sure your inserts go in straight, using a t-handle to helps because you can clearly see whether the T is square to your neck. It's a lot harder to see with a slotted screwdriver.
    - Put a lot of downward pressure on the T handle especially for the first few threads, if you don't it will just pull up the wood rather than screwing itself into the wood.
    - Practice on the same type of wood your neck is made out of, those things go in super easy in pine, it's entirely different in hard maple.
    - if things go very bad, you can drill out the wood so the insert just drops in (not threaded in). Fill the hole with epoxy or thick CA, put the insert in and screw it onto the body, and put a clamp on it (put some wax paper between the body and the neck so you can take them apart). I've only had to do that once, but it worked perfectly, I was convinced I was beyond the point of no return and had wrecked the neck, but it worked.
    - the last and stupidest hint - make sure the insert is flush or lower than the wood around it. I once fought this for longer than I should admit, I just couldn't get the neck snug, then I realized one of my inserts was raised up a bit. It was a result of my holes not being deep enough and the insert bottomed out before it was flush on top. I ended up filing the protruding part off, less than ideal, but it worked out ok.
     
    Matt Liebenau likes this.
  8. s0c9

    s0c9 Supporting Member

    Jan 9, 2014
    Ft.Worth/Dallas
    1964 Audio artist, Fractal Audio Beta Tester
    I'm NOT planning to use these on a neck joint - but thanks for the AWESOME feedback !! :)

    I have a "custom" bass where the luthier (as far as I know) had some health issues and used regular [small] wood screws for the body cavity back plate and took some other "shortcuts".
    I want to replace those with "inserts" for longevity.
    I DID find some 8-32 inserts at Home Depot over the weekend, but they looked kinda big, so I'm now asking what [size] would you guys use for this purpose.
    Something next size down from 8-32 ??

    Thanks
     
  9. McMaster-Carr is a great source once you’re able to figure out your desired size....
     
  10. I use 8-32s in my builds, I actually was thinking of sizing up next time I buy them.
     
  11. s0c9

    s0c9 Supporting Member

    Jan 9, 2014
    Ft.Worth/Dallas
    1964 Audio artist, Fractal Audio Beta Tester
    I'm a total noob at this stuff.. what would be the next size down from 8-32 ??
    6-40 ?
    5-40 ?
    Do I get an assortment? $8 a pack ?
     
  12. gyancey

    gyancey

    Mar 25, 2002
    Austin, TX
    6-32 is the next size down that is easy to get. I use 4-40 brass inserts for my control plate covers.
     
    s0c9 likes this.
  13. For neck attachment I wouldn't go smaller than 8-32.
     
  14. HaMMerHeD

    HaMMerHeD Supporting Member

    May 20, 2005
    Norman, OK, USA
    I like 1/4"-20 stainless steel screws with brass inserts for neck joints. Lowe's has all the necessary hardware.

    Be advised the machine screws you use with threaded inserts need to be shorter than the wood screws you would use without inserts. In most cases, it'll be about 1/4" shorter.

    Actual length depends on a number of factors, such as the thickness of your body, the depth of your neck pocket, and how you installed your inserts.
     
    Last edited: Mar 19, 2018
    s0c9 likes this.
  15. s0c9

    s0c9 Supporting Member

    Jan 9, 2014
    Ft.Worth/Dallas
    1964 Audio artist, Fractal Audio Beta Tester
    Thanks. I'll check Lowes out..
     
  16. For a cavity cover, 8-32 might be a bit big. The next sizes down would, typically, be 6-32 or 4-40. Either should be fine but you may have to order the inserts from McMaster-Carr or someplace like that. Might as well get some stainless screws while you’re ordering.

    For a neck, I wouldn’t go any smaller than 8-32 and 10-24 or 32 or 1/4-20 would be better.

    I just wanted to clarify since I, not sure what we’re looking at working on.
     
    Last edited: Mar 19, 2018
  17. I'm a total, non-reading loser. I didn't notice you said cavity cover. Sorry about that.
     
  18. HaMMerHeD

    HaMMerHeD Supporting Member

    May 20, 2005
    Norman, OK, USA
    For a cavity cover, #4-40 is probably the best choice. McMaster-Carr is a good source for those.
     
  19. Rôckhewer

    Rôckhewer Supporting Member Commercial User

    Feb 28, 2015
    Mesa, Arizona
    Owner/Builder- RockHewer Custom Guitars LLC
  20. Yeah, I thought a few times I was in the movie with Bill Murray, Ground Hog Day a wee bit.
     

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