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Bag End ELF System

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by AlembicPlayer, Aug 19, 2004.


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  1. AlembicPlayer

    AlembicPlayer Im not wearing shorts

    Aug 15, 2004
    Pacific Northwet, USA
    I'm venturing into buying two new cabs..a 2x10 and a 1x18 with the ELF system.

    Is there anyone here who uses the Bag End ELF system?
    Can you please describe what you have and how you like it?

    thanks!
     
  2. bassmanjones

    bassmanjones

    Feb 23, 2002
    Boston, MA
    I'm not the 'search nazi' or anything, but as a friendly heads up, if you do a search for it you should come up with about 3 or 4 good threads explaining how it works and sounds. I was checking this out a few months ago.
     
  3. This is going back about 7 or 8 years since I used the system, but as I understand it is essentially the same processor, etc. I'll tell ya...it really was THE BEST overall sound I could've hoped for. All the highs and ALL the lows (you had to be a little careful). I was using a Series II Alembic and it was just nuts! The only drawback as I can remember was that there was A LOT of patching of cables...because of course I was using two channels for the stereo thing w/ the Alembic and this line ran to this and this one had this special kind of connector, etc, etc. One day, I was getting a bad signal coming from somewhere...and I couldn't easily rectify the problem. I ended up just tossing a bunch of cables (that might have been good) out the window...and I think it was at that point I decided to 'simplify' the system.
    Also, if you're not going to be playing larger venues...its a bit overkill. And chances are, if you are playing the large venues, the sound company you'll be using will be utilizing Meyer or EAW monitors and side fills and you really won't need anything more than a 2 10 cabinet or two.
     
  4. AlembicPlayer

    AlembicPlayer Im not wearing shorts

    Aug 15, 2004
    Pacific Northwet, USA
    thanks to both of you.

    I found some info thru the search....I'll use it more often!
     
  5. notanaggie

    notanaggie Guest

    Sep 30, 2003
    Never used one for bass. Used for PA, though, don't remember the exact models anymore. Pretty nice, but..........

    The issue I found is that they are power hungry, power starved maybe. And, they can't really use the power.

    The lower you go, the hungrier they are, and the faster they limit or fart out.

    But if you stay out of that loud and low area, they are pretty cool.
     
  6. My experience of owning and using a few ELF sytems is that they're not power hungry, and you had better NOT feed them more than their rated power. They do quick, loud lows, but if you give them too much juice you'll hear them "bottom out." Do that a couple of times and you'll have done some serious damage to them.

    I currently own a pair of ELF 2x12 subs, but have used the 1x18, 2x18, and Bassault ELF systems. The biggest drawback to me is that the connections are all XLR but are unbalanced on most models of ELF processors. It's not a big deal as long as you keep your cable runs short, but you don't get the noise rejection of a balanced input/output.
     
  7. andrewd

    andrewd

    Sep 5, 2003
    Boston, MA
    this sounds like it would be fun to use
     
  8. Ericman197

    Ericman197

    Feb 23, 2004
    Iowa
    Hmmm, interesting. I'd like to look into an ELF system of some sort to complement my Schroeders. It's not so much that they're not deep enough, but I'd like to have a little bit more "dub" capability so to say... my main problem is that the 2 ohm impedence being caused by the Schroeders is messing with my head, so I'd like to put them on one side and use the other half of the amp to power something else. I know I'd probably be better off getting more Schroeders or maybe 2 Low B2W's for this purpose, but I could really use some subwoofers for a home audio system anyway. I like how the Bag Ends are very small and compact; I could get a 1x18" and be done with it but I just can't lift a 120lb. cab. I can deal with 50lbs. though.
     
  9. The whole "ELF" series has been disontinued and is called the "Infra" now. They've also completely discontinued most of their relatively inexpensive processors/crossover models required to make it work.
     
  10. notanaggie

    notanaggie Guest

    Sep 30, 2003
    I'll go with that.....by power hungry, I meant that I wanted MORE once I got started with them. But they seemed to not be able to handle the "more", as PBG says, so I had to back way off to avoid sounding like I wa causing damage.

    I think it was a case of "there's never enough lows", but all in all I was not really pleased. We went back to regular stuff that might not be as "low", but at least didn't have to be thought about..
     
  11. Fred Labbidie

    Fred Labbidie Guest

    Apr 22, 2004
    I had this system for gigging, had the same experience as you guys. I ended up setting the low end roll off at about 38 Hz anyway, so I ended up with a low-volume sytstem that couldn't handle dynamics. And the low end was similar to a conventional system. I ended up going back to the truck and pulling out a 4x10 cabinet. Don't do it!

    However.......I used the same system in a small recording studio as a true sub-woofer balanced with Yamaha NS-10's.
    In that application, it worked great.
     
  12. Man...I don't know the way you guys had your system setup, but I was using the ELF 18 and two 2 10 Bag Ends (Crown K2 power) and I really had to back off the output or rather the volume of the 18. It would literally rattle things off the walls if I wasn't careful. So...plenty lound for my tastes. I'd go so far as to say it was THE loudest setup I've ever used and that includes my two Berg 322's/Ag DB750 (which is pretty friggin' loud.)
     
  13. Yeah, that's what I was saying. There is LOTS of loud low end, just don't overpower the speakers.
     
  14. Yeah, I was with you on the output. I think it was Fred that said 'the low end was similar to a conventional system'...I was like...whoa; I thought the sub-lows were nuts!
     
  15. Fred Labbidie

    Fred Labbidie Guest

    Apr 22, 2004
    I should have been more clear. I also felt the sub-lows were nuts!
    But, the super low stuff was not musically useful to me. It could loosen your bowels; but didn't sound good. THe elf processor I had was very adjustable. After I got it to sound good, I had basically ended up with the low end of a conventional system.

    I think if you are playing in one room all the time, you could tune the processor to the room, and probably optimize it. I did like it in the studio (as part of the monitor system) for that reason. Now days, having an powered sub in a small studio is pretty common anyhow.

    To my ears, the best bass systems are not the ones that reproduce the lowest fundamentals. As long as your cabinet will reporduce 50 Hz, -10dB, your ear will add the lower octave, and you won't need to use 1,000 watts to run your cabinet. IMHO.......Everything else is dynamic response and where the humps are in the mids.
     
  16. My exact sentiments.

    And that's one of the big reasons I don't use the system anymore. And what the hell do we have PA subs for, right? Let them handle the lowest end of the spectrum. So for the added depth to your sound (for you - onstage) vs. all the funky cable, wiring AND lugging a dedicated cabinet soley for air movement...well, each player can make that decision for themself.
    However; I still think there's something to having 1200+ watts at your disposal. (I run either one or two Stewart 1.2's - one for each cabinet, full range and bridged.) With that, I'm really not missing the ELF's 8hz or schleppin' the 18 around.
     
  17. notanaggie

    notanaggie Guest

    Sep 30, 2003
    Yeah, after we got having fun through using up all the watts on the low stuff, we really thought we would do better the old way.

    The low lows used up watts like crazy, we ran out, and it kinda barfed, it didn't fart out. That cured us. Then it was like "why?".

    Its a neat system. Maybe best in theatres or amusement parks, most sound really won't need it. Wish I had tried it with a 6 string, might have done good there, not stupid low.
     
  18. Ericman197

    Ericman197

    Feb 23, 2004
    Iowa
    The reason I myself am interested in the system is the light weight aspect. How else can I get an 18" subwoofer enclosure that's lightweight and compact? Sure they exist, but with the same specs and size?
     
  19. They also require a better caliber power amp than most bass players here are used to. The usual run of lightweight switching designs is NOT going to cut it with ELF. Crown Micro Techs or QSC MX amps are as cheap as you can go and not be disappointed with getting your watts "eaten" by the lows. They weigh considerably more than the standard PLX, Stewart, etc amps that are so popular in this forum.
     
  20. notanaggie

    notanaggie Guest

    Sep 30, 2003
    And why would that be?

    The "switching amps" I have used seem more than able to power anything, solider than most old boat anchors.

    Anyone for a Powerlight?

    Seriously, watts is watts, and frankly, I just don't see the logic in that argument. Weight does not equal more power, more power equals more power.

    If you want to argue dynamic headroom, OK, but that problem is solved by a larger amp, relatively cheaply, and saves your back, if you use a switching type.
     



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