Psst... Ready to join TalkBass and start posting, make new friends, sell your gear, and more?  Register your free account in 30 seconds.

Bag End S15-D + Berg HT112 together...

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by smarvelous, Apr 27, 2003.


  1. smarvelous

    smarvelous

    Jun 2, 2002
    Albany, CA
    Here's the mystery:

    Why, when I added the Berg HT112 to my Bag End S15-D did the rig actually become quieter? I left the amp at the same volume and merely plugged the Berg 1/4" connecter to the Bag End 1/4" connecter. (I daisy chained out of a bridged 4ohm Stewart 600W amp).

    Either the Bag End by itself, or the Bergie by itself was louder than the two together!

    My pet theory is that there is something out of phase between these two spekers (like when you reverse the + and - on one stereo speaker and the sound becomes more hollow). Sound possible?

    As expected, the Bag End, by itself, is a tad bit more efficient (apparent loudness) than the Berg by itself. But I wasn't expecting the two of them together to be quieter.

    Am I making any sense?

    By the way, I love the Berg. I never really heard my low E on the single Bag End. I played a house party gig last night and the Berg had no problem (salsa/latin jazz, drums, conga, piano, guitar, vibes, vocals in a large living room)

    Any ideas are appreciated,

    Brendan
     
  2. Gabu

    Gabu

    Jan 2, 2001
    Lake Elsinore, CA
    Attach a 1/4" jack to two wires. Connect an "a" cell battery to the 1/4" input jack of your first cab. Notice if the speaker goes in or out.

    Connect the same "a" cell battery to the 1/4" input jack of your second cab. MAKE SURE YOU USE THE SAME POLARITY AS BEFORE. Notice if the speaker goes in or out.

    There you have it. It's easy to see if you are out of phase.
     
  3. smarvelous

    smarvelous

    Jun 2, 2002
    Albany, CA
    Gabu,

    That was it! The ironic thing is that I wasn't really thinking of the simple solution, eventhough I implied it (which was to check the wiring). I was thinking maybe the speaker designs were somehow resulting in out of phase frequencies, which upon reflection is not that plausible.

    I didn't use your solution, however. The Bag End is very easy to reach in and switch the + and - leads. They are clearly labeled on both the jack and the speaker itself and they were correct.

    The Berg, has a crossover and other electronics and so I couldn't readily figure out whether it was right. So I just reversed the Bag End and suddenly the two speakers sound appropriately huge!

    My suspicion is that the Berg was improperly wired when it was built, but I will have to investigate further.

    thanks!

    Brendan
     
  4. Brad Johnson

    Brad Johnson Commercial User

    Mar 8, 2000
    Gaithersburg, Md
    Boom Bass Cabinets, DR strings
    An S15-D + 1-12 is a beautiful thing:D
     
  5. Reefer

    Reefer Guest

    Mar 9, 2003
    I had a Bag End S-15B straight from the factory hooked up backwards. I suspect you have the same problem. Double check with the 9 volt battery.
     
  6. smarvelous

    smarvelous

    Jun 2, 2002
    Albany, CA
    Well, I jumped too a conclusion to fast. The Bag End was wired correctly at the speaker but <b>incorrectly</b> at the jack.

    I liked the 9v battery test the best because I could just connect the tip of the 1/4" speaker jack to the + side and the ring to the - side (of the 9V). Then I could see that the Bag End speaker was "sucking in" rather than pushing out, as it should.

    Jim Bergantino was kind enough to walk me through this on the phone.

    Two speakers are so much huger than one! The Bag End has a bump in the low mids which complement the flat response of the Berg.

    But I have a feeling I will be replacing the Bag End with a Berg EX112 one of these days. We'll see how these two match up on the gig.

    Thanks all for the help!