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Discussion in 'Pickups & Electronics [BG]' started by ted13, Mar 29, 2004.
Has anyone put a bartolini pickup in a musicman bass if so how did it sound after?
I've got a 3 coil pup out of Sterling, A Bart MM, and 3 coil Bart headed this way and have several Bart preamps to check them out with. So I'll get back on that, but it's not exactly you're situation.
But from what I've seen on TB, it appears that rarely does anyone replace an original Musicman pup. Seems they're more likely to replace the electronics, but neither happen often from what I can tell. But apparently the Lane Poors are hard to come by and installed in some original MMs and a prized piece (unless I've got my wires crossed). Somebody had a recent thread on it tho - what's this on my pups - or something to that effect for a title.
thanks. ya know i have a jan 93 sterling and it sounds good but on a big pickup like that i'd perfer no pole peices. i like my pickups high. let me know how it turns out. i amy also change the electronics but to what? i have never really heard of anyone doing this. thanks
I voted Bart, as they are just "my" sound all around. But I used to tech for a guy that played live with 3 MM's, all that had EMG (I wish I could remember the model) subbed in and his tone was out of this world. But he also played through a Mesa Boogie Tri Axis, 2 4x10 Hartke's and 2 2x10 Genz Benz. He had tone control for days no matter what.
It just really depends on what you're looking for...
The closest replacement pickup to a stock MM that I've played so far is the Basslines alnico. Aero is making a MM pickup that I would love to try, and I've heard that Nordstrand has one in the works.
If you're looking to change your tone from a stock MM pickup, the Bart or Lane Poor would probably be the way to go. I just sold an MMC and MME and the Barts had more bite than I expected. I personally found the Bart MM pickup in the Laklands I've tried to be a little too subdued for my needs. I was using the stock EB preamp on the stingray, so that may have something to do with it.
I've never tried a Lane Poor in a stingray, but I've had a few Fleas with the Lane Poor, and that is about the best I've ever sounded. After recording some practice sessions playing the Flea w/LP, I heard 'The Tone Inside My Head' from that bass (it was exactly the sound I had always wanted, but of course I sold it long ago.......).
I'm still rather partial to the "standard" stock MM pup, although I love the sound of EMG MM pups. If I was going to replace a MM pup with a non-stock one, I'd definately go EMG.
I have a Sterling and just recently put a Bartolini in it. The stock pickup is almost as good as the new Bartolini and it won't cost you over 100 bucks! If you have money to burn and want to experiment, have at it, but the difference isn't jaw dropping...
I agree with SideCar666, in saying that it's not a huge difference, but there definitely is one. I put one into my '99 Stingray a couple months ago and was very happy with the swap. I loved my Stingray, but it just felt like it was missing something. I put the Bartolini MMC in and found it to be more to my liking. It had more of a midrange growl to it, and even more of a bottom end. The biggest difference though was how much more the D and G strings stood out. Previously, those two drowned out under the E and A, but now they have a voice of their own. I would highly suggest trying the MMC if you are unhappy with the stock. And if all else fails, you can just buy a Modulus Flea with a Lane Poor like I did!!!! Good luck.
Got the Sterling pup off Larry and both Both Bart MM's off Todd today.
That Sterling pup is one thick puppy, 1 3/8". The intended bass is only 1 1/2". Momma said there'd be days like this.
Tonight stuck the Bart MMC in a bass that I just routed Sunday. As was previously mentioned, you get clarity on the D & G strings but too bright this first round - sounds like the Sterling may be more my cup (so it goes). Ran it direct passive (straight out the jack using the amp for controls) and through an NTMB with Mid switch outboard unit. Pretty much the same either way but cleaner straight. If I got the E & A strings where I wanted it, D & G were too bright and the converse if adjusted accordingly, treble fine bass too dark. Had the treble on the amp practically at zip at one point - and I like treble. Decent tone on two strings tho.
Some factors may be 1) the bass has a bright tone to begin with 2) I set the pup about 1/2 - 3/4" too close to the bridge (I can move it anywhere) 3) the bass is strung with TI Jazz flats - but that's all I use and the pup will go long before the strings go and 4) I ran a bass with Bart PJs direct last night out two jacks for true stereo but ran them through seperate channels of the Poly combo and it was sweet - not leaving much tolerance for fighting with string tones tonight. But it's a first run so will see.
I'll try moving the pup up some from the bridge but I figure it will be the same results as with adjusting the controls. Can increase the string/pup spacing on the treble side. Throw a slant in the pup ala strat style. Maybe split the coils and run 'em like the PJs. Drop the Bart MME in with it at the neck. Have some other preamps I can give a go with it. I've also got a bass that's a thudder I can drop it in and see what happens.
I moved the MM up a bit and I don't know whether I'm getting used to it or that I just have the amp already adjusted for it and didn't have to dink with it but today it seemed pretty decent. As bright as it is I can probably move it up to the neck position and it will work. I like to have the bass setup so I can run my EQs flat. I don't mind spending I lot of time getting the bass right but once it's done it better pretty much fly itself. But usually I have two volumes to work with to get tone (two pups normally) so since this is a single pup I don't mind tweaking a volume and one other control but I'm not going to be jacking around with a bunch of knobs trying to pull a decent sound out of a bass.
Experimentation is just beginning but so far an MM pup to me has the sound in one pup you should be able to get from a pair of decent Jazz pups. If I had to go with a single pup, an MM would be it. Really has a useful crossover jazz sound.
Doing this as I go or I'll forget results.
Moved the MMC up to the neck and too dark. Lost the treble even running the tone control up. Stuck it in the middle and it is kind of a "happy medium" but strikes me more like nomans land, sort of losing the best of both worlds.
In all, for this single pup, on this bass, with these strings, through this amp, the standard MM locale is about the best spot. You gain volume as you run it up the neck but loose growl and clarity. Also of interest is that it looses the J tone and takes on a P tone as you move it up. Very interesting pup design. Pretty versatile in stock position but just seems to be not quite there.
I'm thinking next may be trying an MM at neck and bridge (where it was intitially set - closer to bridge than stock) and do the stereo thing. I think the neck will take some edge off the bridge.
A similar situation to what your experimenting with on the G&L side is the difference in pickup placement between the L1000 (just the bridge pickup from the L2000) and the L1500/Climax (which is closer to the stingray position).
Can you post a pic of this bass that your using to hold these pickups (or is it classified information)??
Todd, actually there are four of them in process, convertibles as I call them. One will be my first attempt to defret. Two are GSR 200s, ones a thumper and ones bright. The other's a GSR 300 DX I'm going to set up for flat picking (2 octave thin neck - will have narrow string spacing). Actually 5, the first was a test run on a GSR 190 that will be sold after I make a pickgaurd for it. Been able to sell off half my basses and increase my sounds infitesimally as a result. Not classified by any means but somebody should have massed produced this deal a long time ago - and may yet but I could care less. But my Fuji only coorperates in daylight so will be tomorrow. Hambone had a similar pic on a post. He gave me some helpful direction. I don't want no @#$% about the routing job - hear? Nothing a pickgaurd won't cover anyway. I hadn't used a router in 30 years, and that was on doors using a jig when I was a carpenter apprentice in Southern Cal - when hammers were more appealing to me than pens.
Instead of sticking another MM at the neck I went for a Duncar P (skb-1, whatever - never can remember it). I'm real weight conscious on my basses and picking that second MM pup up was the straw. Early on I'm already thinking I really don't like using two of the same type of pups cause it seems you just get more of the same thing. Think I read a post about a guy asking about an MM/P combo and seems the MM in the neck position was putting out a P sound to me anyway so why not (makes me wonder what a P at the bridge would do - and now I can finally find out without having to have a bass that's setup that way). And this Duncan P in conjunction with the a J hotstack was real full on the bottom.
One thing I forgot about was that combo was also too bright if you didn't keep the treble down - just like the MMC. But the end result from this test run was too much Duncan. It tended to overpower the MMC at practically any volume - and I did run these stereo straight out the jacks through seperate channels so the pups were completely independent. With the Duncan up at all it just cut into that MM sound. This is the first time I've ever mixed manufacturer pups. I hadn't thought about it till now, but the MMC is the first Bart pup I've run that doesn't have that Bart sound to it.
I'm going to give the two Bart MMs a go but I suspect the single MM in the stock MM position will prevail. Turning down the treble is no big deal (although it seemed the bass had to go some too) and the Poly has 10 db boost and cut switch for the hi's if I want to do some Reggae (or whatever) with it.
thanks for the info guys.
Took some pics and they all pretty much sucked and don't know how to load them into this site as yet so if you want a shot just email me. I shipped Todd one but you can't see any detail from it. But info on that bass is as follows:
All pups will be permanently (as if anything I do is permanent) attatched to 1/8” thick doorskin boards of equal dimension that fasten with 4 corner screws in the same place on all boards in all basses. Instead of a bunch of basses, I’ll have a bunch of pup configurations that I can change out in the bass of choice (thudder, bright, flat picker, or fretless) in 5 minutes by loosening the E & A strings up a bit and sliding the board beneath the strings then quick connecting to output jacks. If I want active I’ll run through onboards converted to outboards. I’ll set up a few boards for active (like EMG PJs) and have the battery clipped to the board between pups.
Always called this bass Reflex cause it originally had a set of English active Reflex PJs with Reflex preamp and remained so until a week ago, thus the extra pot hole from stock 3 pot Ibe - only pot hole in current use is for neck output jack. Bridge output jack uses stock Ibe stereo jack. The stock bridge E string spacing wouldn’t cut it with the Reflex J pup so I slapped on a Schaller roller to bring it up to snuff, but I plan for all the basses to have the Schallers. Pups in it at the moment are Todd’s X : Bart MMC at the bridge & MME at the neck. Set of TI JF 344s on it (all I use). Strap is cut from a flat-bed binder strap. If this bass ever goes down, it won’t be going alone. All my basses have the same strap. I tried a 3” binder strap but was just too heavy. Total weight of this bass as it is right now is just under 7 lbs. With most other pups it’s 6 lbs or under (how sweet it is).
For what it's worth, the neck MM results were pretty much the same as adding the P pup. Maybe a J pup would work. But the next transformation will probably be to swap the Bart MMC between the thudder and bright bass in stock MM position to see if the tone of the bass affects what comes out the amp.
Swapped the Bart MMs back and forth between the two basses. So I had a dark and bright bass and a bright and darker pup. The MME as it's wired now is darker and the sound followed the pup. But also the tone of the bass clearly affected the pups which actually suprised me cause I didn't think it would be so apparent if at all.
Next will be a J pup at the neck.
Guess I'll be running this into a seperate thread after this post.
Threw a Bart J in with the MMC and it's pretty decent. When I get a pup combo right, I should be able to get a wide tonal variation between two pups just by altering volume controls a tad and very good volume at low settings - and I got both.
The J neck is an excellent compliment to the MMC in terms of tone. The J's thin by nature so doesn't drown out the MMC at the bridge and allows for beefing up the bottom end without taking away the highs from the MMC, depending on adjustment). In addition I could adjust with the J volume only so that biting treble edge of the MMC on the D & G strings was resolved. I could get a tone similar to my Bart PJ setup (or the Duncan PJ set I mentioned previoulsy - fat bottom) yet retain the MM sound.
Have a keeper combo I do believe.