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Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by Gabazz, Mar 17, 2018.
Or if you want a newer amp, Ampeg PF-20T or PF-50T.
Both McCartney and Carol Kaye recorded bass through open backed cabs (Vox 210 and Super Reverb respectively). Definitely some great bass sounds between those two!
Just don't push the volume, and use pedals for overdrive, etc.
I used a '64 Fender Deluxe Reverb Amp and a '66 Fender Princeton Amp for recording bass. My Princeton is too clean (the way it is set up, anyway), and so prefer the DR. I also prefer the 12" Jensen over the 10" Jensen...
Just my opinions... You'll find your own opinions...
I have a Fender Hot Rod Deluxe II with matching cab. In the cab, which is closed back, I have a Jensen P12N. I contacted Jensen and they said that the speaker would be damaged by using it for bass.
If I were to get the ampeg 1x15 and use it with the HRD would it work?
The Xmax for the Jensen P12N is +/ 1mm. So it will not handle much power/volume with bass.
An 8 ohm 15" speaker should work well and sound great with the HRD.
Yes, IF PUSHED beyond xmax!
But when recording, you aren't competing with other instruments, volume wise, so it's not a problem.
Record the bass at a relatively low volume, and let the mix add the muscle! Just like Macca and Kaye.
Kaye's 410 Fender combo wasn't being played very loudly (I've used the same model Super Reverb, Concert and Bassman amps to record bass). The volume and power come after the mic, while mixing. THAT won't effect the speaker at all!
Most of what you can listen to from Revolver and Sgt Peppers LPs are bass recorded through a 30 watt tube amp, into a 210 open back Vox guitar cab... And for most of the 60s, Kaye used a Fender Super Reverb (40 watts, 410 open back guitar combo amp). No mention of blown speakers!
If you are worried, then get a real bass cab. At lower volume levels, the size (10", 12", or 15") doesn't matter. Any size will work equally well. On stage, at higher volume levels, the larger driver will be louder than the smaller one.
I haven't seen a Fender Hot Rod Deluxe II combo with a closed back cab. But closed or not, it should record the bass as well as any amp and cab. You do not need high volume to record the bass. In fact, the lower the volume going into the mic, the bigger you can make it sound "in the mix!"
Sorry I left some missing detail. The combo is open back, but i have the closed back matching enclosure.
Mic the closed back cab for a tighter, deeper sound. But still keep the volume down. Put one mic close to the grill, and another 3+ feet away. Dynamic mics are fine. Mix to taste. Should sound great!
Which mics would you recommend? I have d112, sm57, md421. Then I have a Chinese ribbon, and SE x1 condenser. I also have a blue Bluebird but does not have much bass and Oktava mk012 which are my best mic but not so sure about LDC and bass.
When micing an open back cabinet, try using two identical mics, one in front of the cone, the other directly in line with the front mic but in the back. Position both mics the same distance to the cone. Phase invert (button on the preamp) the back mic. The sound will be thicker. It is best to locate the back mic first, you want it pointing at an opening where you can see the cone, not the frame.
I think I'm going to be using the closed back cab. I have multiple SM57, Se X1, ribbon and Oktava only. Only one D112 and one MD421.
You never know what will work best at low studio levels. Otherwise reserve it for guitar. BTW, for this technique, a pair of SM57’s will work fine. That’s what I use. Otherwise, use whatever mics work.
Don’t be afraid to experiment!
Could you please explain how or why you find your DR to be dirtier than you Prncton? and what bass you use to find these results?
Ok to use two mics, but the rule isn't that you always reverse phase one. depending on the frequencies you're focusing on as your source/or subject, and the fact that it's more difficult than most people can do to measure exactly the phasing distances needed,.. the solution is only to have a reference/ listen to what is going on...test if something else is better, then decided what one you want to represent or track
I think I'm going to follow your advice and get a 1x15 cab for now and use it with my guitar amps. Maybe later on I'll add a bass head.
I'm looking at the Ampeg 1x15 portaflex series. One is sealed without a tweeter and the other is ported and with a tweeter (an about 100 more expensive). Which one would you recommend?
Did you miss the point about mic'ing the front and back of the speaker with the mic equidistant from the source. Considering the wavelength of the fundamental and first overtone, the measurements don't have to be all that precise....We are talking specifically about bass here.
IMHO, try the MD421. Use distance and aiming to control the tone. I.E. note the mic's polar response and proximity effect.
The D112 has an extremely heavy EQ contour built in that is tailored for bass drum use . I doubt I would use this mic unless I were mixing it with another signal.
I was thinking trying the MD421 and SM57 in front and choosing what I like. The SM57 always surprises me how good it sounds on anything! Ribbon may be too dark and bassy, missing the point why I want the amp, for the nice midrange. and LDC mine are pretty low end stuff nothing fancy but could possibly work.
Try to find YouTube videos so you can decide for yourself. I believe only the 115HE has the tweeter (50-17kHz). I believe the HE is designed to house a PF head and allow you to flip the head inside the cab for travel. The 115LF's listed frequency response is 57-3.7kHz.
Here's a thread you might find useful Ampeg PF-115HE vs PF-115LF??
I'm not going to carry the amp inside the cab as these get heavy. I struggle to carry the 24kg 1x12 guitar amp. I could not find a direct comparison of these ampeg cabs. On that thread the LF seems to be better. How does a sealed cab vs a ported cab work for a studio recording?