Bass envelope filters: Can any compact pedals beat Source Audio's Manta?

Discussion in 'Effects [BG]' started by Bioflava, Apr 2, 2017.


  1. Bioflava

    Bioflava Supporting Member

    Feb 14, 2016
    Dear TB-Hive-Mind,

    I've spent a lot of time trying to find a great bass envelope filter and IMO nothing touches the Source Audio Manta Bass Envelope Filter... but it's too dang big for my compact pedal board -- can anyone recommend an alternative?

    Source Audio, if you are listening, could you put the Manta in one of your compact enclosures? Thanks!
     
    rsmith601 likes this.
  2. dannybuoy

    dannybuoy

    Aug 3, 2005
    Earth
    Depends what you mean by beat. Both the MXR BEF and Broughton JoshWah slay my Manta in terms of being a great sounding general envelope filter, but of course they can't touch the feature set if the Manta!
     
  3. Mosfed

    Mosfed

    Apr 21, 2013
    Washington DC
    Partner - CCP Pedals
    Ok I have tried pretty close to every filter out there - I love filters - really love filters and I am a particular fan of Mutron style filters.

    Options for you include:

    - MXR BEF - PROS: easy to dial in, inexpensive, easy to find; CONS: personally I find it sounds like crap - way too thin and brittle; and just doesn't have that stank.

    - Mr Black Fwonk - PROS: Stanky as all heck, huge funky, enormous sound. Makes you get funk face as you play. CONS: impossible to control without a powerful limiter after it. it is so peaky and out of control. And it has a huge volume bump when you first engage.

    - 3 leaf Wonderlove - one of my single most disappointing filter experiences. I just could never get it to quack like I wanted no matter what I did. I found it kinda bland. Plus if the Manta is too big, so is the Wonderlove:

    - 3 leaf Proton - smaller brother of the Wonderlove. I never owned one but I have played on at a friend's house for a jam. Same impression as the Wonderlove. Major meh. But with even less controls to dial in.

    - EHX Q-tron, Dr q etc - they have good sounds in there but they aren't much smaller Than the Manta and kinda meh over all.

    NOW ONTO MY RECS

    - Broughton Audio JoshWah - amazing little pedal masterpiece from Bro-ton. Great quack, easy to dial, small, cool addition of gain. By far the best option out there right now.

    Or if you can wait:

    - Mu-fx micro-Tron - a real mutron in a 125b with top jacks. But who knows when it is coming out. We paid for Phasor IIIxs in December and still don't have them out.
     
    Last edited: Apr 3, 2017
    DrMole, JBoogy, Bioflava and 3 others like this.
  4. DDXdesign

    DDXdesign formerly 'jammadave' Supporting Member Commercial User

    Oct 15, 2003
    Vegas
    @Bioflava Which filter type do you love so much on the Manta, and just how much space do you have? That would help us make recommendations. There are 1590A sized pedals that do the DOD 440 sound, the BassBalls sound, etc if you need it to be TINY, and then the options get wider as you move up to MXR sized, etc.

    I like what I've heard of the JoshWah, and I'm eagerly awaiting a better demo of the idiotbox Super BassOMatic 76. MXR is good but with a huge bassy thwomp as the filter closes, which could put you off.
     
    Bioflava likes this.
  5. Bioflava

    Bioflava Supporting Member

    Feb 14, 2016
    Thanks folks, some useful posts! To give a bit more info:

    I'm currently on a Pedal Train Nano+ And there's enough room for my DG Supersymmetry, an EBS multidrive, the SA Manta, a TC Corona chorus and a 1590a tuner. I'm very pleased with the pedals I have, but find the board a bit big. And as much as I like the Manta, I'm only using it for one song (Shakedown Street).

    I am using the band pass setting on the Manta and after A/Bing it against the MXR and Mutron, I much prefer the smoother and more flexible sound of the Manta. The analog stuff I've tried is just too fiddly as @Mosfed has found.

    In terms of my board: trying to cut 4" of space total... if I could get the SA down to a 1590a it would all fit -- or if I could go down to an MXR sized box and drop the dirt box to a 1590 it would also work.

    I wish TC would make a 1590a BEF or that SA would drop a simpler Manta into one of their smaller boxes... Or that SA would pair a chorus from the Orbital with the BEF in the Manta. Although digital, there's something about their stuff that just sounds lush and organic while also being flexible and easy to use.
     
    kesslari likes this.
  6. DDXdesign

    DDXdesign formerly 'jammadave' Supporting Member Commercial User

    Oct 15, 2003
    Vegas
    I hear ya. Hell, I wish I could figure out the Manta well enough to have made any awesome sounds, but I just could not. I need separate knobs for everything instead of one knob controlling 6 things. =0)

    SA did the One series for drive, for fuzz, and for modulation; I can't imagine they'd skip out on doing it for filters too.
     
  7. dannybuoy

    dannybuoy

    Aug 3, 2005
    Earth
    IdiotBox had a 30% off sale this weekend, was tempted to order one just for the heck of it.

    You can stop the MXR being so thwompy by raising the decay control, which is actually a mislabelled frequency control if you ask me!
     
    Bo0tsy likes this.
  8. DDXdesign

    DDXdesign formerly 'jammadave' Supporting Member Commercial User

    Oct 15, 2003
    Vegas
    Aw man, how do us mere mortals find out about such things?

    EDIT: sale is still on through today - check their Twitter account for deets =0) I'm ordering a SBOM76 to try out. if I can figure out how to record things I'll make a little demo.
     
    Last edited: Apr 3, 2017
  9. rsmith601

    rsmith601

    Apr 14, 2009
    Boston, MA
    President, Source Audio
    Hey, thanks!!! Can I quote you on that?? :)

    Yes, eventually we will have a filter pedal in the One Series format. It will cover all the ground of the Manta. Other things are more urgent at the moment.
     
    DeadPoet, NonDJ and Brio like this.
  10. Bioflava

    Bioflava Supporting Member

    Feb 14, 2016
    @rsmith601 Thanks for the response and kudos for some really fine gear... Does "eventually" mean 2018?

    Drop the Manta in a One Series box and/or add a chorus program to the Manta (hey, it's got TWO buttons!) and you will make a very happy customer! :)

    @jammadave I hear you -- the Manta is pretty complicated, but each knob only has two fx so with a bit of tweaking, you should be able to find something good. I use Low Pass 04 with a sine-type modulation.
     
  11. rsmith601

    rsmith601

    Apr 14, 2009
    Boston, MA
    President, Source Audio
    2018 sounds good!
     
  12. Bioflava

    Bioflava Supporting Member

    Feb 14, 2016
    @rsmith601 Wait, I meant THIS year! 2017 too soon?
     
  13. rsmith601

    rsmith601

    Apr 14, 2009
    Boston, MA
    President, Source Audio
    Probably. We want it to be a good and innovative next generation.
     
  14. gsquare

    gsquare Pedal Breeders' BIGBoardClub#104;CabronitaClub#8 Supporting Member

    Jun 16, 2012
    Phoenix
    I ordered one as well, can never have too many filters and it looks to have top jacks! Worth trying out at a discount!
     
  15. JimmyM

    JimmyM

    Apr 11, 2005
    Apopka, FL
    Endorsing: Yamaha, Ampeg, Line 6, EMG
    Really? I think I may dig the 440. Kind of reminds me of the envelope filter on my Bass Synth Wah in demos I've heard, and if I could get one in a 1590a, I might consider putting one on my board again. The BSW sounds good, but it's too big for a pedal I don't really need, and I would like one on my board just in case I actually can use it for something :D Bonus points if the price is $60 or thereabouts.

    But so far, my searches for a good envelope filter in a 1590a has turned up a goose egg. So far, only the Mooer Bass Sweeper looks viable, but it's got that BassBalls thing going on with the high end that I don't really care for. And the others I've seen demos of just don't sound good. I went to the music store to get a couple doodads today, and I tried the Hotone Q-Box, and it's garbage. Either you can't tell it's on or it sounds like a phase shifter. Too bad...it was insanely tiny, and that would have been perfect.
     
  16. DDXdesign

    DDXdesign formerly 'jammadave' Supporting Member Commercial User

    Oct 15, 2003
    Vegas
    I like the Malekko e.filter, which to me sounds like a slightly dirty 440. Has this organic feel to it that I dig, albeit not pristine and hifi in nature. It only does upsweep though. Check vids on youtube, there are a couple with it on bass.
     
  17. JimmyM

    JimmyM

    Apr 11, 2005
    Apopka, FL
    Endorsing: Yamaha, Ampeg, Line 6, EMG
    I have. Sorry Dave, just didn't feel it. Would have never guessed it was based on the 440 if you didn't tell me. But thanks for the suggestion.
     
  18. DDXdesign

    DDXdesign formerly 'jammadave' Supporting Member Commercial User

    Oct 15, 2003
    Vegas
    No problem. Disclaimer, I only guessed it's a 440 clone based on the knob arrangement and labeling, plus the color.

    That said, you can get a MojoHand 442 or 443 for a "real" 440 clone in a box not much bigger than an MXR, if that helps =0)
     
    JimmyM likes this.
  19. JimmyM

    JimmyM

    Apr 11, 2005
    Apopka, FL
    Endorsing: Yamaha, Ampeg, Line 6, EMG
    Oh yeah, that's right...forgot it looks sort of like a 440. Turns out to be based on one, too, but I don't know...maybe it was just the people I heard using it, but I still think I like the real 440 a lot more.

    Appreciate the suggestion, but I really want something 1590a, otherwise it takes up more room than I want to give it.
     
  20. JimmyM

    JimmyM

    Apr 11, 2005
    Apopka, FL
    Endorsing: Yamaha, Ampeg, Line 6, EMG
    Hey, does anyone know about the KO Amps 440 clone? Couldn't find any demos of it.
     
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