Bass modes vs. guitar modes

Which mode is the right mode "system" to use for bass? (Read the first post before answering.)

  • The first one (with 12 black and red dots)

    Votes: 1 3.6%
  • The second one (with eight orange dots)

    Votes: 11 39.3%
  • Carrots

    Votes: 16 57.1%

  • Total voters
    28
May 16, 2023
206
354
966
Ultrashort version - is there a difference between bass modes and guitar modes? (Modes = Ionian, Dorian, Phrygian, etc.) I feel like somebody's trying to teach me guitar theory on a bass.

Longer version - I'm a rookie. Just started with a new teacher. (My first one passed away.) By his own admission, he's more of a guitar person than a bass person. But I figure that's okay for a total beginner, like me.

He recently started teaching the the different modes. But he's showing me something that looks kinda like this.

1720965096590.png


However, most of the material I find says the modes should look like this.

1720965216853.png



I feel like he's trying to take guitar theory and apply it to the bass, when bass modes have a very different shape than guitar modes. Can anybody help me out? Which mode is the "right" mode for bass?

EDIT - Let me rephrase my question. What is the best "fingering" or "shape" of the modes? It seems like the "orange dots" are easier to conceptualize and "copy and paste" to another area of the fretboard, while the "black and red" dots lend more to a lot of rote memorization.
 
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Modes are a musical concept, irrespective of instrument. For example, C Ionian contains the notes C, D, E, etc. There is no such thing as "bass modes" or "guitar modes."

How you physically play those notes depends on the instrument. On a piano, C Ionian is all the white keys. On a stringed instrument, where those notes are located depends on how the instrument is tuned.
 
Ah-yup. The differences in application of modes in bass and guitar playing only differ in implementation - the instruments have different roles, guitar parts tend to have more chords / simultaneous notes and bass tends to have more linear, arpeggiated chordal structures (fewer notes going at once). But on the music theory side, they're the same. The only difference is in application due to different roles in the music.

The shapes are compatible, too, the bass mode fingerings are merely a "low 4 string subset" of the guitar 6.
 
I started with the orange dot way, and that's how I'd teach it to a newbie. It's easier for me to visualize and understand the intervals, and it makes for good one-finger-per-fret (except the dorian, which will require a little shift).
 
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This shows F Major (Ionian)

1720977149231.png

Notes from red to red are F, G, A, Bb, C, D, E, F. The notes that follow are G, A, Bb, C.

I'll assume this represents a 5 string bass, so it shows F# Major (Ionian)
1720976990255.png

Notes are F#, G#, A#, B, C#, D#, E#, F#

The reason different different patterns must be used in these two examples is because of the proximity to nut or the open strings. The orange pattern does not work from F, first fret on the E string, unless you use open A and open D.

Notice if you play orange and yellow, it's the same pattern as your orange Ionian example. However the yellow dots represent the open A and open D string. In order to fret all of the notes, you need to play the green dots instead of using the open strings...which produces the Ionian pattern from your first example.
1720978662777.png


Either way, it's Ionian.

You need to know both patterns (and more) IMHO. Also you should not rely exclusively on box shapes, because that doesn't help you understand why both patterns are Ionian.


If you use one finger per fret, here is a more advanced Ionian pattern you may eventually find useful:
1720979951168.png

This is A Major (Ionian) starting from 4th finger A on the E string. The notes are A, B, C#, D, E, F#, G#, A

To play the green notes you shift a half step. The ascending finger pattern is 4, 1, 3, 4, 1, 3, (shift) 1, 2
 
I read about looking at scales as each note being whole steps (two frets) and half steps (one fret) apart. A major scale would be whole step, whole step, half step, whole, whole, whole, half. All the other scales have their own patterns. I found this webpage that explains it better than I can (without copying an entire web page) guitarhabits.com/building-scales-using-the-whole-half-step-formula/ I know they are using a six string guitar. Here is a bass version web page: scottsbasslessons.com/blog/bass-guitar-scales NOTE: if I'm wrong about this, I will retract everything I said and apologize now. (Personally I don't like scales. Everytime I get on one, it tells me I've gained weight.)
 
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We have four fretting fingers. Our frets are not very close together, especially near the headstock. Common wisdom dictates we play with one finger per fret, so as not to stretch, overextend, or hurt ourselves. There are such things as extensions. The first finger can extend down one fret and the pinky can extend up one fret, but these extensions are difficult as you near the headstock.

Version two is a way to finger the modes using one finger per fret. It seems as though it was designed with bass players in mind. It is written within a four fret spread . Version one is not a guitar diagram, because all the strings are tuned in fourths, But it can only be accomplished with extended fingerings, since all the diagrams in version one encompass five frets – not four.
 
If your teacher is only teaching spots on the fretboard and not the actual notes involved, he is not doing his job. Ask him to teach you the theory of modes and if he can't, find another teacher.
Yes, I understand the notes and the theory. But right now I'm just trying to focus on the fretboard pattern, because once you learn the pattern, you can apply the pattern to any of the 12 starting points. Or is that the wrong way to look at it?

(Right now, I'm learning the G-major scale and trying to apply everything to G-major. Once I learn the pattern and develop some dexterity, then I can apply it to other scales as well.)
 
Okay. Technique is or can be different on BG than on guitar.

Modes are the same on guitar, bass, piano, sousaphone, euphonium, harmonica, marimba...

Those published patterns are fine, working it out for yourself based on your understanding of the theory is better.
 
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Yes, I understand the notes and the theory. But right now I'm just trying to focus on the fretboard pattern, because once you learn the pattern, you can apply the pattern to any of the 12 starting points. Or is that the wrong way to look at it?

(Right now, I'm learning the G-major scale and trying to apply everything to G-major. Once I learn the pattern and develop some dexterity, then I can apply it to other scales as well.)
G major is a perfectly good place to start. If you're a "rookie," put off the topic of modes for later. For now, focus on learning how to play a G major scale in three different ways (within one octave): one starting with your index finger, one starting with your middle finger (the most common one), and one starting with your pinkie. You can look up diagrams for all these fingerings, but you might get the most benefit out of figuring them out for yourself.
 
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Ultrashort version - is there a difference between bass modes and guitar modes? (Modes = Ionian, Dorian, Phrygian, etc.) I feel like somebody's trying to teach me guitar theory on a bass.

Longer version - I'm a rookie. Just started with a new teacher. (My first one passed away.) By his own admission, he's more of a guitar person than a bass person. But I figure that's okay for a total beginner, like me.

He recently started teaching the the different modes. But he's showing me something that looks kinda like this.

View attachment 6980582

However, most of the material I find says the modes should look like this.

View attachment 6980586


I feel like he's trying to take guitar theory and apply it to the bass, when bass modes have a very different shape than guitar modes. Can anybody help me out? Which mode is the "right" mode for bass?

EDIT - Let me rephrase my question. What is the best "fingering" or "shape" of the modes? It seems like the "orange dots" are easier to conceptualize and "copy and paste" to another area of the fretboard, while the "black and red" dots lend more to a lot of rote memorization.
Both examples are right.
Ex 2 shows the scales over one ocrave
Eg: G A B C D E F# G
Ex 1 shows the scales extended to a 12th (an octave + a fifth)
G A B C D E F# G A B C D

Ex2 would be an easier place to start
 
Modes never clicked with me until I removed the notes. Once I started thinking in terms of intervals in relation to the root it was a simple matter of learning 7 recipes to create each mode by dropping or raising specific intervals by a half step.

My point is, that it's a lot easier than you are thinking about it. There's no such thing as guitar vs bass modes. The shapes you play are a byproduct of understanding the concept.

Hope this helps, but if it doesn't good luck anyway on your journey.
 
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Both fingerings are good for diatonic modes on bass.
There are other fingerings as well.

Mode scales - the comination of steps and half steps - are a sound.
For fun and something interesting to think about, have your teacher show you where the tri-tones occur in each mode.
"The tritone is an interval that's composed of two notes that are six half steps, or three adjacent whole tones, apart - for instance as between C and F sharp."

As pointed out in posts above = finger patterns and shapes are good in the beginning - soon they will be ingrained, but also focus on getting how the different modes sound into your ear (mind). peace
 
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