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Bass Player Mag reviews the placebo effect...

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by Bassflute, Oct 1, 2008.


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  1. Bassflute

    Bassflute

    Jun 24, 2006
    Vancouver
    Endorsing Artist: MTD basses and strings; Bergantino Amps & Cabs
  2. hasbeen

    hasbeen Commercial User

    Sep 23, 2004
    Vice President, KMC Music. Warwick U.S. distribution, Ampeg distribution
    I haven't read the review or tried those cables but, I was in on the early development of Elixir cables. While at their facility, they gave us blind fold tests...very detailed test.

    There was definetly a difference between many of the "premium" cables that we tested.
     
  3. Bassflute

    Bassflute

    Jun 24, 2006
    Vancouver
    Endorsing Artist: MTD basses and strings; Bergantino Amps & Cabs
    Weren't you solidly in the 'placebo' camp last year, and backing Bill Fitzmaurice's (and others) nasty, offesive, vociferous and cuckold ridiculing of me in this public forum on the subject of cabling? When I suggested I could hear a difference between a Monster Bass Cable and anyting else? Maybe I've got the wrong guy...

    BTW, you should redo the 1200 amp, with a less extensive, simpler, and 'higher end' preamp to lighten it a bit. A great amp, but a bit over the top control wise. Put a nice 'Neve strip' on the front end of that power section and you've got a world-class winner. Bass, sweepable low mid, sweepable upper mid, treble, carefully placed, two channels, switchable, and voila.

    Or make it a power amp only, with a choice of pre's...

    Cheers,
    Cameron
     
  4. grovest

    grovest

    Feb 26, 2002
    Thanks for the tip on the article, I am planning on buying 2 of the Analysis Plus Yellow Flex Ovals from Pedalgeek. Now that I've seen this scan I'm looking forward to some new leads even more.
     
  5. KsPiNeSh

    KsPiNeSh

    Mar 28, 2008
    Kansas City
    Disagree - Bassflute must have been bitten by a knob as a small child :)
     
  6. billfitzmaurice

    billfitzmaurice Commercial User

    Sep 15, 2004
    New Hampshire
    Owner, Bill Fitzmaurice Loudspeaker Design
    You definitely have the wrong guy, because I never said that a Monster bass cable was not audibly different. It is, very much so, because it has such high capacitance that it attenuates high frequency response. IMO a reputable source of cables would have called it defective and not brought it to market. Monster decided instead to take a lemon and of it make lemonade.
    The only measurement I saw on the provided link was capacitance, which, while technically scientific, isn't exactly rocket science. Anyone with a $20 multimeter can measure cable capacitance. BTW, the capacitance of both those cables is unacceptably high. 30 pF per foot is more or less the industry standard for high quality cabling, and cables costing $1 a foot with that spec are common. The rest of the review was purely subjective, and since it was not a side by side blind listening test comparing those cables to a reasonably priced product, like Bayou, no more than a thinly disguised advertisement IMO.

    I did reject your claim that an overpriced power cable made an audible difference, and am, like many others I'm sure, still awaiting the promised Tom Bowlus review of same.
     
  7. hasbeen

    hasbeen Commercial User

    Sep 23, 2004
    Vice President, KMC Music. Warwick U.S. distribution, Ampeg distribution
    nope...seriously. I don't ever recall commenting that all cables were the same. ...not in the slightest. Having said that, I don't put too much thought into it once I grab a cable. I'll use any "quality" cable. Monster, Planet Waves, Elixir.....etc.

    Re the amp- not bad ideas. We do get requests for a more simple "interface" from time to time. We do also get lots of "fan" comments too.

    Anyway...cables. George L's are great too. I think I'm using mostly Mogami at this point.
     
  8. Bassflute

    Bassflute

    Jun 24, 2006
    Vancouver
    Endorsing Artist: MTD basses and strings; Bergantino Amps & Cabs
    I just like knobs that have a profound effect on the sound, rather than lots of useless ones for the sake of decoration. More could have been spent on the input quality, rather than on a trillion bells and whistles.

    BTW, my current system has lots of knobs...

    MTD-with-rig1.

    Cheers,
    Cameron
     
  9. Kelly Lee

    Kelly Lee Yeah, I'm a guy! Supporting Member

    Feb 17, 2004
    Marana, AZ, USA
    :eyebrow:
     
  10. Big String

    Big String Supporting Member

    Apr 22, 2000
    Northwest Indiana
    Veddy intersting.
    Just recently I sorta switched back to my Monster Bass cables over the Bayou Cables I have been using. Both seem very high quality. The Monsters 'seemed' to fatten up my tone/signal as the Bayou's were very midrangey in my new cab (AE410) which is very clear and has a promenint midrange voice. There is still plenty of highs that are clear but as I said using the MC the tone seems bigger. Guess it's the attenuated highs. Funny how we percieve things as many claim they cannot hear any difference in cable brands. Call me crazy, but I do hear the difference for what ever is causing me to hear it.
     

  11. It amazes me how this issue keeps getting thrown around. As many have posted, the Monster Bass cable (ONLY that model, not the other Monster cables) is a high capacitance cable. As a result, the highs are attenuated, which means, it actually does sound kind of 'bassy'. This was done 'on purpose', and while I surely don't dig it, I guess others do.

    It is the only cable that I've heard that actually, as others have posted, sounds 'meaningfully different' from all my other cables (George L, Tara Labs, etc., etc.).

    Beside Bassflute's typical 'in your face, everyone is an idiot but me' post,:rollno: I don't think there is much controversy with this one, very specific cable issue.

    No bid deal to me, but again, the reason you are hearing the Monster Bass cable as sounding fatter is that it has less high end. I guess there is nothing wrong with that, but I'd rather have a more neutral pathway (i.e., virtually any other cable other than that one particular Monster execution).
     
  12. billfitzmaurice

    billfitzmaurice Commercial User

    Sep 15, 2004
    New Hampshire
    Owner, Bill Fitzmaurice Loudspeaker Design
    Yes, you do hear a difference. The capacitance of the Monster has exactly the same effect as the tone control on a bass with passives, which uses a capacitor to roll off high frequencies. But as with a passive tone control all a cable can do is remove signal content, it can never add to it.
     
  13. hasbeen

    hasbeen Commercial User

    Sep 23, 2004
    Vice President, KMC Music. Warwick U.S. distribution, Ampeg distribution
    FWIW, the Monster Cable I prefer for bass is their "acoustic specific" cable. ...they market it for acoustic/electric instruments.

    This may sound odd but, the most important factor of a cable for me though is how it "handles". ...does it kink up, too stiff, too much handling noise...etc.
     
  14. lomo

    lomo passionate hack Supporting Member

    Apr 15, 2006
    Montreal

    +1. If it isn't a blinded test repeated enough to be convincing (ie, doing it 10 times and finding a difference 6 times doesn't wash) then it is meaningless. I dare and IMPLORE any publication to blindly compare 2 cables using, say, 25 identical sound samples and 3 reviewers to publish the raw results. It would be easy as pie to do (I've done it with some audiophile friends) and there's a reason that nobody who has a financial stake in it does it; The Emperor is stark naked.
     
  15. Preferably double blind.
     
  16. lomo

    lomo passionate hack Supporting Member

    Apr 15, 2006
    Montreal
    Maybe triple, LOL. Mine goes to eleven:D
     
  17. Hey Roger! Exactly. That's why I use those fancy cables that Roger Sadowsky sells. I can't even remember the name, but they are very rubbery and smooth and are just great on the gig and coming out of the gig bag. They sound like any other cable to me (other than the Monster Bass:D:smug:)
     
  18. I found the GB 1200 to have too many options, but I'd never say that the knobs were "useless" and "for the sake of decoration", that's just silly.

    Great post, though...why don't you design an amp, you certainly speak as though you could.



    Dan
     
  19. Fuzzbass

    Fuzzbass P5 with overdrive Gold Supporting Member

    I'm sure it does sound odd to those who believe the cable hype, but in my decades of experience there isn't enough tonal difference between cables to worry about, not even between cheap and boutique. So I too put great value in the way a cable handles, and that is why I have been using the skinny GeorgeL cables for over five years now: they coil up easily and neatly and don't take much room.
     
  20. Big String

    Big String Supporting Member

    Apr 22, 2000
    Northwest Indiana
    Come on Guys... I said "I guess it's the attenuated highs."
    I guess I'll just stake down some trees with these aweful cables....:rolleyes:

    I do like the Bayou cables too. They are nice to roll up and have very nice connectors that are soldered nicely too. Very affordable.
     

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