Bass Rig that creates crazy Subwoofer Bass?

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by Jhonnybass, May 31, 2012.


  1. Hey all!

    I play in a band called Ctrl+Alt+Dance that plays dance instrumental music. (http://www.ctrlaltdanceband.com) I've searched the threads and read a whole bunch but I still haven't figured out how to exactly do what I'm trying to do or if it's even possible...

    In this band I play both electric bass and synth bass - (midi keyboard hooked up to a minitaur). I'm fairly happy with my electric bass sound (I currently play a LM III through an Epifani 15') but I plan on getting a more powerful rig soon. I want to play my synth and have people feel the bass like they would at a club with subwoofers and all. We play a lot of shows that don't have sound system since they're house parties, smaller bars or clubs.

    I realized that I'm going to need a subwoofer but this is where I'm stuck. I checked out the fEARful cabs and noticed that they make 12' and 15' subs. The one part I'm confused about is the crossover section. I remember reading somewhere that the cutoff frequency for the LPF is set @ 800 Hz but to create the bass I want wouldn't I need to be @ 40 Hz? How much power would I need to feed the sub?

    I'm planning on getting a rack with a crown XLS Drivecore and a preamp which I haven't decided on yet for more power and flexibility. I was reading some of the specs on the crown amp and it says that it has crossovers built into it already. If this is the case would I be able to take another full range 15' cab, turn the tweeter all the way down, connect it to the channel on the crown that is set to LPF and make that my subwoofer?

    IS THIS IDEA EVEN POSSIBLE AND HAVE ANY BASS PLAYERS DONE THIS LIVE BEFORE?

    Really sorry if this sounds ridiculous...Thanks :hyper:
     
  2. monkeyfinger

    monkeyfinger Moderator Staff Member

    The fearful 15/6, 12/6, etc are full range bass cabs. They are not designed to be used as a sub only. You can build it to use an external cross-over, but this is not recommended. I suggest you bring your questions to the fearful forum.
     
  3. You'd have to look into the PA subwhoofers. You could try to use one with your existing equipement.
    Either you split your signal and send <120Hz to the sub and >120Hz to the other cab, or you just feed the sub with the <120Hz signal and run the bass cab fullrange. Again, this has to be tested in order to know the results.
    And maybe place the subwhoofer somewhere else on stage might help.
     
  4. oerk

    oerk

    Oct 16, 2009
    Bavaria
    800hz is the crossover frequency for the mid driver.

    The fEarful 12 and 15 subs are simply fEarful cabs without a dedicated mid or tweeter, meant to be only used in conjunction with a proper 12/6 or 15/6.

    The fEarfuls go pretty deep, so this might be just what you need.

    Or, what aledeville said: look into PA subs, crossed over either with a regular bass cab or a PA top (a regular 15" bass cab might be overkill because it wouldn't have to do any significant work anymore).
     
  5. There are people here better qualified to answer your question so I won't bother. I just wanted to say I really dig your music!
     
  6. Here's a possibility:

    Get yourself a powered subwoofer. Carvin makes a great one. Hook that into your current amp's DI out. Adjust volume on the sub to match.

    I've done this with an Acoustic B200 combo with a Carvin 18" powered sub, and immediately had to go upstairs and put the pictures back on the wall.
     
  7. [​IMG]

    This is a fEARful 1515/66/1 that I commissioned Dave at http://www.gigmaster.biz/ Gigmaster Soundworks to build for me. Two 15" high xMax drivers handling everything under 800 Hz, two 6" mid drivers handling everything above that. The tweeter is switchable on/off if I want that sparkle on the high end. The cab would be a monster for synth work as well as bass. When we are lazy at practice and dont want to set up the PA I run my pre amp to the board, and then run bass, keys, and vocals through my cab. Its not the best option for vocals, but it works in a pinch when I dont want to lug a PA out for practice.
     
  8. Take a look at Bill Fitzmaurice's folded horn subs. They are a bit big but way loud.
     
  9. billfitzmaurice

    billfitzmaurice Commercial User

    Sep 15, 2004
    New Hampshire
    Owner, Bill Fitzmaurice Loudspeaker Design
    You should be getting those low frequencies from your PA, not your stage rig. If you run those low frequencies through the backline only the results in the audience will be spotty, and if you run them through both the backline and PA you'll have severe cancellation issues. If your PA doesn't have good subs that's where you should be making an upgrade.
     
  10. Tunaman

    Tunaman

    Dec 26, 2004
    Boston
    NOT GK NEOs !!
     
  11. JxBass

    JxBass Supporting Member

    Aug 5, 2008
    Acme cabs produce rich and full bottom end.
     
  12. JimmyM

    JimmyM

    Apr 11, 2005
    Apopka, FL
    Endorsing: Yamaha, Ampeg, Line 6, EMG
    Just remember there are more frequencies involved in reproducing bass than 40hz.
     
  13. MrLenny1

    MrLenny1

    Jan 17, 2009
    New England
    My Acme does 31 Hz real nice for a monitor but
    BillFitzmaurice is the authority on this one.
     
  14. Hmmm I guess if you don't have PA at certain shows/house parties then you need your cab to produce the Dub... The fEarfuls are a goos start for clean full range, othewise the ACME cabs, Eden XST or even an Ampeg HLF might get you good results. All require lots of power, especially to push those low frequencies, so maybe look at the XLS1500 bridged into 4 ohms, that's what I use and it has been great thus far for everything I do.

    Like Jimmy said, it's not only about producing the clean low fundamental notes, most of what you hear is coming from the upper harmonics
     
  15. Thank you guys very much for all the advice! At the end of the day I guess I just need to get a good pa subwoofer that I would put in front of the whole band (off the stage on the floor) so that the audience gets the most of it and so that I doesn't interfere with the other instruments.

    Other than the Carvin subwoofer already mentioned, have you guys experienced good things from any other specific PA subwoofers?

    Thanks so much for your help! TalkBass is amazing!!:p
     
  16. spector_boogie

    spector_boogie No Limit Honky Supporting Member

    Apr 15, 2012
    The Woodlands, TX
    JBL SRX 218 is a good'n. Or, just invest in a good to decent PA so everyone sounds big, not just you.
     
  17. Thanks for listening Alexander!!! You can find our page on FB or just add me and I'll let you know when the full album will be ready!! My name is Jonathan Amador and I'm the guy with the sombrero :)
     
  18. That's true!! I'll definitely start looking into it
     
  19. monkeyfinger

    monkeyfinger Moderator Staff Member

    Excellent point. I have witnessed this many times as a live sound engineer. I have asked the bass players to turn down anything below 100hz. Usually there is enough bottom from the FOH on stage so the musicians wouldn't miss the low end from the cab. Now that I have a 15/6, I bought a signal process with a variable hi-pass filter for just such an issue.

     
  20. monkeyfinger

    monkeyfinger Moderator Staff Member

    I think you are suggesting adding a sub to your PA system. That is a good idea. However subs for PA systems can be a very complicated topic. One well outside the scope of this forum. I suggest contacting the manufacturer of your PA speakers for recommendations on matching subs. Also check out the prosoundweb LAB lounge forum. It is specifically geared towards live sound for newbies and weekend warriors. Be prepared to learn a lot. Fortunately, what you learn there will help you a lot here.

     
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    Primary TB Assistant

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