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Bass "Scale Pattern's?

Discussion in 'General Instruction [BG]' started by CitricGuy, Jul 11, 2003.


  1. I have been trying to learn more and more music theory and am now trying to apply it to the bass. I know alot of the basics and how scales are built up for instance... (Please let me know if these are correct!)

    Ok, first of all im assuming these "basic" patterns can be played anywhere... Is that true? But heres what I got so far...

    MAJOR SCALE PATTERN (T-T-S-T-T-T-S)?
    Open 1 2 3 4
    G|-----|-----|-----|-----|
    D|-----|-----|-----|-----|
    A|--6--|-----|--7--|--8--|
    E|--3--|--4--|-----|--5--|
    B|-----|--1--|-----|--2--|

    MINOR SCALE PATTERN (T-S-T-T-S-T-T)?
    Open 1 2 3 4
    G|-----|-----|-----|-----|
    D|-----|-----|-----|-----|
    A|--7--|-----|--8--|-----|
    E|--4--|-----|--5--|--6--|
    B|--1--|-----|--2--|--3--|

    I hope I got all that right. I guess kina what I’m asking is, are those correct and what are some other common patterns? I’m still reading a bunch of tutorials and lessons ( http://www.musictheory.net ) and several others around the net, but this just seems to be where I’m stuck. I just want to be able to play (For instance) in the key of Am#7 when our guitarist is there... I know i can just play the "A" root, but I’m trying to get beyond that, even beyond Am.
    I hope I didn't confuse anyone but myself, but thank you very much for reading this and for any responses, I’ve learned so much from this site it’s unbelievable
     
  2. Howard K

    Howard K

    Feb 14, 2002
    UK
    Whoa there!

    Firstly, yes you have go those scales correct! :)

    May I suggest thinking in terms of intervals (that is the no. of semi-tones and tones between notes) then real notes, rather than the pattern on the fretboard?
    The "TTSTTTS" examples you have used above are spot on, stick with that until you can remember all the actual notes.
    From what I gather (I'm still learning this stuff myself) this will come with time as you learn to better understand chords, key signetures etc.

    Well, Am#7 is not a key signeture, it's a chord.

    Chords are built by taking the 1st, 3rd, 5th and often the 7th note of a scale and playing them together.

    So taking the Major scale you would play the 1st note (the root), the 3rd, the 5th and the 7th together to make a Maj7 chord.

    In most cases the 'A' would be the root note as you said above.
    The 'm' would indicate a minor 3rd, so from the root A, move up two intervals on the minor scale you post above.
    However the #7 would mean it is a Major 7th, rather than a minor one (although the 3rd IS minor), so you would play the 7th note from the A Major scale - the one you posted above.

    Unless I'm mistaken this is 'the Hendrix chord" - the one he used in purple haze - characterised by the min3 and maj7???

    I could witter on about this for hours and probably confuse myself as much I'd confuse you... :D
    One of TB's moderators (jazzbo) has written a great lesson on chord theory (and some other stuff) that I think would really help you out, here's a link:

    http://www.talkbass.com/html/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=31

    It's a pretty hefty amount of info to take in, but learning this will help everything make alot more sense I assure you :)
     
  3. moley

    moley

    Sep 5, 2002
    Hampshire, UK
    No, it's an E7#9.

    Other than that, Howard's on the money here ;)
     
  4. Howard K

    Howard K

    Feb 14, 2002
    UK
    Right, and the #9 is effectvley a minor 3rd over the Major 3rd in the E7 chord. I knew there was some sort of Major/minor thing going on there. Is that right?

    Am I? Blimey! :)
     
  5. moley

    moley

    Sep 5, 2002
    Hampshire, UK
    Yup.
     
  6. Thank you very much for getting back to me Howard, it's starting to click a little easier now.(Jazzbo's lesson is excellent by the way :D I’m still eating my way through it at this very point in time.) So from what I understand now... (And to use my nifty diagram's once again.)

    This is the Major Scale written on the bass.

    Open 1 2 3 4
    G|-----|-----|-----|-----|
    D|-----|-----|-----|-----|
    A|--6--|-----|--7--|--8--|
    E|--3--|--4--|-----|--5--|
    B|-----|--1--|-----|--2--|

    Where as....

    Would be the Maj "chord?" (as transcribed in this format for the sake of visiual learning) :D
    Open 1 2 3 4
    G|-----|-----|-----|-----|
    D|-----|-----|-----|-----|
    A|--6--|-----|--7--|--8--|
    E|-(3)-|--4--|-----|-(5)-|
    B|-----|-(1)-|-----|--2--|


    And for the sake of using my nifty diagram once more...
    This would be the Maj7 chord?


    Open 1 2 3 4
    G|-----|-----|-----|-----|
    D|-----|-----|-----|-----|
    A|--6--|-----|-(7)-|--8--|
    E|-(3)-|--4--|-----|-(5)-|
    B|-----|-(1)-|-----|--2--|


    Again, thank you very much for taking the time to help me out with this. The documentation is great but actually applying it to the bass is what has me confused.
     
  7. Howard K

    Howard K

    Feb 14, 2002
    UK
    In what way does the application of this have you confused?
     
  8. It seems like I’ve been learning theory for years now (off and on of course.) There’s still a bunch I need to learn I know, but I can’t seem to apply anything to the bass yet. Granted my entire band is in the same boat, we have no idea where to start to create our own stuff. We get lucky occasionally but when it comes to making a decision on chord progressions and such I don’t know how to get that from my head to my fingers... I hope that makes sense lol, I can’t tell if it does or not when I read it to proof it.
     
  9. Howard K

    Howard K

    Feb 14, 2002
    UK
    Try transcribing other peoples songs, putting theory into practice. You're band sounds likw it might be a case of the blind leading the blind, then giving up and rocking instead..

    If you figure out the theory behind some other artists musc it might give you some ideas? Then you can seize the initiative with the band!
     
  10. Thats a great idea! Thanks Howard! I'm gona get them to learn theory no matter how sly I've gota be. =) :ninja:
     
  11. Wrong Robot

    Wrong Robot Guest

    Apr 8, 2002
    Another Scale pattern that I'm rather fond of.

    this is the one I use for major scales almost exclusively.

    G|-----|-----|-----|-----|-----
    D|-----|--*--|--*--|-----|-----
    A|--*--|-----|--*--|-----|--*--
    E|--*--|-----|--*--|-----|--*--


    I find that it not only works my hand a little more, but leaves me more room for soloing.
     
  12. Taylor Livingston

    Taylor Livingston Supporting Member Commercial User

    Dec 25, 2002
    Louisiana, US
    Owner, Iron Ether Electronics
    Disclaimer: DO NOT just learn patterns. Learn notes. These patterns help me when soloing, though. I suppose some folks are comfortable enough that they could fly through a great solo and name all the notes while they're playing; I'm not. But still learn theory.

    These also help reinforce Pacman's scale idea, which is that you should know all the notes possible in a given position, and be able to move through various positions within the same scale. Another thing is that it can help your understanding of modes (with which I'm still struggling).

    Here's the one for major and minor.

    [​IMG]

    By the way, I didn't draw this.
     
  13. Taylor Livingston

    Taylor Livingston Supporting Member Commercial User

    Dec 25, 2002
    Louisiana, US
    Owner, Iron Ether Electronics
    I also have them for major/minor pentatonic and major/minor in CGDA tuning. But, my photo editor doesn't seem to want to open those. If someone with photoshop wants to post them I'll e-mail them.
     
  14. Aaron

    Aaron

    Jun 2, 2001
    Bellingham, WA
    i use three figure patterns per scale (well, non diatonic scales are a little different.)

    for example:
    Lydian:
    G|-----|-----|-----|-----|-----
    D|-----|--*--|--*--|-----|-----
    A|-----|--*--|--*--|-----|--*--
    E|--*--|-----|--*--|-----|--*--

    G|-----|-----|-----|-----|-----
    D|--*--|-----|--*--|--*--|-----
    A|--*--|-----|--*--|--*--|-----
    E|-----|--*--|-----|--*--|-----

    G|--*--|-----|-----|-----|-----
    D|--*--|-----|--*--|-----|--*--
    A|--*--|-----|--*--|-----|--*--
    E|-----|-----|-----|--*--|-----

    All three fit together, too:


    |-----|-(1)-|-----|--2--|-----|--4--
    |-----|--1--|-----|--2--|-----|--4--
    |-----|--1--|-----|--2--|-----|--4--
    |-----|--1--|-----|--3--|-(4)-|-----
    |-----|--1--|-----|--3--|--4--|-----
    |-----|--1--|-(2)-|-----|--4--|-----
    |-----|--1--|--2--|-----|--4--|-----
    |-(1)-|-----|--2--|-----|--4--|-----

    () = root
    1,2,3,4 = finger

    If you change the root, you will have fingerings for an other mode. You can do that for all 7 modes. There are only three patterns used:
    (A)|--1--|-----|--2--|-----|--4--|
    (B)|--1--|-----|--3--|--4--|-----|
    and
    (C)|--1--|--2--|-----|--4--|-----|

    For diatonic scales, they will always be in the order:
    3x A
    2x C
    2x B
    3x A
    2x C
    2x B
    etc.
     
  15. Thanks CJ, Ide love to see em! :D

    citricguy@hotmail.com :)
     
  16. Taylor Livingston

    Taylor Livingston Supporting Member Commercial User

    Dec 25, 2002
    Louisiana, US
    Owner, Iron Ether Electronics
    Here they are in Bitmap format. Again, my photo editor won't open them, and my version of MSPaint doesn't convert bitmaps to jpegs. But if anybody feels like converting them, please do. In the past, I've had trouble with bitmaps not showing up right.

    Here's major and minor pentatonic.



    It's important to remember that these are based on 2 patterns:

    Code:
    |*| |*|*|
    |*| |*|*|
    |*|*| |*|
    |*|*| |*|
    
    and

    Code:
    |*| |*| |*|*|
    |*| |*|*| |*|
    |*| |*|*| |*|
    |*|*| |*| |*|
    
    (for the minor/major, I don't feel like doing the others, but you get the idea.
     
  17. tomdabass

    tomdabass

    Apr 19, 2004
    HI guys!!

    I was just wondering which fingerings you guys mostly prefer??
    Is it ....


    -----1----3--4-----
    -----1----3--4-----
    -----1--2----4-----
    --------2----4-----


    or...

    ------1--2----4-----
    ------1--2----4-----
    ---1-----2----4-----
    ---1-----2----4-----


    ?????
     
  18. ashton

    ashton

    Jan 4, 2001
    Australia
    it all depends where im playing on the board as to what fingers i use
     
  19. Theodeus

    Theodeus

    Jan 18, 2004
    Sweden
    I vote for the first "box" since I generally stay beneath the 12th fret (don´t solo that much). If I´d play the second one I´d have to move my hand a bit (not far, but still...) to get to the sixth and third, wich I use quite a lot. So box 1 for me!

    Edit: Or the root or fourth depending on where my hand is at the moment... of course... :smug:
     
  20. AllegroNonMolto

    AllegroNonMolto

    May 15, 2004
    Just recently it hit me that in any given position there are only 3 actual fingering shapes for a scale or mode, and which one is used depends on which finger the root of the mode starts from. Please note that the numbers in the shapes are the scale degrees, not the fret numbers or fingerings.

    Example:

    Ionian(major scale shapes)

    If you start the mode with your index finger on the root the shape would be(ascending starting root note in parentheses):

    G---l-----l-----l-----l-----l-----
    D---l-----l--7--l--R--l-----l-----
    A---l--4--l-----l--5--l-----l--6--
    E---l-(R)-l-----l--2--l-----l--3--

    If you start the mode with either middle finger on the root:

    G---l-----l-----l-----l-----l-----
    D---l--6--l-----l--7--l--R--l-----
    A---l--3--l--4--l-----l--5--l-----
    E---l-----l-(R)-l-----l--2--l-----

    If you start the mode with your pinkie on the root:
    G---l--R--l----l-----l-----l-----
    D---l--5--l----l--6--l-----l--7--
    A---l--2--l----l--3--l--4--l-----
    E---l-----l-----l-----l-(R)-l-----



    Aolian mode(minor scale shapes)

    If you start the mode with your index finger on the root:

    G---l-----l-----l-----l-----l-----
    D---l--7--l-----l--R--l-----l-----
    A---l--4--l-----l--5--l--6--l-----
    E---l-(R)-l-----l--2--l--3--l-----

    If you start the mode with either middle finger on the root:

    G---l-----l-----l-----l-----l-----l-----
    D---l--6--l-----l--7--l-----l--R--l-----
    A---l--3--l-----l--4--l-----l--5--l-----
    E---l-----l-----l-(R)-l-----l--2--l-----

    If you start the mode with your pinkie on the root:
    G---l--R--l-----l-----l-----l-----
    D---l--5--l--6--l-----l--7--l-----
    A---l--2--l--3--l-----l--4--l-----
    E---l-----l-----l-----l-(R)-l-----


    In actuality, learning those six shapes are the only ones you really need to focus on, as it is pretty easy to just deduce what scale degrees to raise or lower to create the rest of the modes as such:

    The "major" modes:

    Lydian=raise the 4th a half step in any 3 of the major scale shapes

    Mixolydian=lower the 7th a half step in any 3 of the major scale shapes

    The "minor" modes:

    Dorian=raise the 6th a half step in any of the 3 minor scale shapes

    Phrygian=lower the 2nd a half step in any of the 3 minor scale shapes

    Locrian=lower the 2nd and the 5th a half step in any of the 3 minor scale shapes

    _________________________


    Obviously from there the shapes can be connected together as needed.

    This sounds a lot more complicated than it actually is I'm sure but it is the end of my work shift and I don't know how to explain it better. At any rate this was a lightbulb coming on in my head when it hit me and improvising has gotten MUCH easier since I figured this one out.