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Discussion in 'Live Sound [BG]' started by pflash4001, Apr 1, 2013.

  1. pflash4001


    Dec 2, 2011
    So the bar I do sound at most often is saying he's having intermittent trouble with his console...a Mackie Onyx 32*4. He's thinking of replacing it and said he's "heard" about Behringer having bought out Midas. Wants me to see if Behringer is putting out better gear now. I haven't kept up with this. I heard about this for the first time on Saturday and didn't believe it until I looked it up online. So any opinions? Is the Behringer knock off any improvement or did Midas just go boobies up in quality? I still don't know what to make of this...it feels like Ferrari being bought out by Yugo.
  2. uOpt


    Jul 21, 2008
    Boston, MA, USA
    Total information fail.

    No such thing happened. Midas is good and a Music Corp company. Behringer still has a lot of passionate haters. If we make a club I'll be member #1.
  3. seamonkey


    Aug 6, 2004
  4. the deal is this in a nutshell...

    Behringer did not technically buy out Midas/klark...the Music Group did, which is the company(which uOpt mentioned) that owns behringer (happened to be owned and formed by Ulli Behringer) purchased those brands.

    now what you are getting in the X32 is Midas Technology...MEANING...that behringer got the circuitry info on a midas pre and then developed their own. and it does sound considerably better...but it is only on this series (as far as im aware)
  5. pflash4001


    Dec 2, 2011
    Thanks. Like I said, I heard it in passing for the first time. It just seems like a huge step back for Midas.
  6. I have to agree with Big Daws statement if Behringer has Midas technology and circuitry not to mention their people and plants now why wouldn't it be as good? That is like saying since Fender made the first electric bass all other companies will suck glad this type thinking wasn't the main stream back then or everyone would be playing a Fender like it or not.
  7. pflash4001


    Dec 2, 2011
    I'm not saying Behringer gear sucks because they didn't originate the technology. In my experience Behringer gear had terrible QC, reliability, and was noisy. So, if Behringer is using Midas technology, has QC improved so that their consoles can be relied on without going into a nuclear meltdown during a show? I've seen one and heard of someone else's (the bar owner in question) Behringer consoles power supplies burst into flames during use. One was a wall wart another was internal. That's the kind of stuff that makes me leery of Behringer. Has that changed?
  8. DWBass

    DWBass The Funkfather

    IMHO, Behringer is trying very hard to change their image of producing cheap, poorly QC'd products. If they can improve the quality of their guitar and bass products, they may just have a complete line of decent products. Their PA gear is already pretty decent and that new x32 mixer is their flagship! No way they would allow that to be an inferior product! For $3k, it better be worth it!

    The uber pro PA gear guys will show up and give their thumbs down and suggest other products. Just do your homework and try before you buy.
  9. I had an X32 on loan for a couple weeks and ran it through it's paces. My thoughts:

    sounds fine. not life changing but it more or less will deliver what you put in to it back to the output. The EQ is very usable, the compressors kind of suck. Gate seems fine. Crazy flexible: you get 8 VCA groups, 6 mute groups, 16 mix busses that you can as either groups or aux sends. The stuff in the virtual effects rack ranges from usable (delays and reverbs, 33 band graphic) to kind of goofy and bad sounding(limiter, transient designer, 'tube' channel strip).

    No hardware insert points, which kinda sucks given the marginal compressor in the channel strip.

    Digital snake system.

    I've heard that the moving faders can break if you have your finger on one when you switch layers and it tries to move. They really do feel like stuff is grinding and trying to break if you are providing any resistance.

    It was noisier than I thought it would be.

    They are really cheap for the feature set.

    Sound is about on par with a Studiolive but it's more flexible, has more inputs, and has moving faders and a nicer display.

    I wouldn't buy one, but I'd have no problem making a band sound good on one.
    AlexanderB likes this.
  10. modulusman

    modulusman Banned

    Jan 18, 2004
    That is actually cheap for a 32 channel digital board. It makes you wonder how good are the parts used if they can sell it that cheap.
  11. as DWB mentioned, behringer is working extremely hard to change their name and the stain that they created themselves to be. that sort of stigma is extremely hard to shake within this industry, moreso PRO than MI...

    you are going to find that their products are a little more reliable than in the past. they just don't sound good.

    the X series of consoles are the only line that carries this midas technology, that i am aware, they may have snuck it in elsewhere, but probably not. so don't go thinking that its in everything behringer.

    IMO, behringer to me will always be a brand to help you limp by, get through a gig, or a cheap in between purchase kind of product. definitely not something i could go out of my way and call a pro item. ***spoken from my own experiences
  12. uOpt


    Jul 21, 2008
    Boston, MA, USA
    I am sorry but simply taking schematics from Midas doesn't make Behringer products any more reliable. I have no primary knowledge of whether Behringer decided to put something solid behind the X32 but in general Behringer seems to get constantly screwed by their Chinese manufacturing "partners" who seems to put in excessively low quality components. The way these things go they had better ones in the prototypes and then silently drop, that's how it usually goes with outsourced manufacturing. But the point is, taking Midas schematics doesn't do anything about switches that fail after a very short time.
  13. didn't say that it does...i just said they their products overall are getting better. i never said they were good, or amazing.

    the midas schematics or "technology" certainly helped out the sound of their pre's (on the X series only that im aware of) and their noise floor problems. sounds better than an LS-9. and if you bothered to actually A/B the two you would agree...

    im not saying that behringer is more reliable with or without acquiring these companies. but certainly their QC is getting better. im not a behringer fanboy by any stretch of it.
  14. honest abe

    honest abe Supporting Member

    Mar 18, 2009
    Weslaco TX
    Audio Engineer for Marcos Witt
    Ive been a studio/live sound engineer for 20 years. Ive used the best consoles available for live work, both analog and digital. Although The X32 is not life changing it is game changing. There is nothing within 3 times its price that even comes close in overall sound, features, and in and out count. Although the Yamaha LS9 is the closest in feature set and is built like a tank, it still doesnt sound nearly as good as the X32 which costs 3 times less! It seems to be solidly built and of much better quality than anything Behringer has ever put out. Only time will tell. I have heard of a few stories of defective ones making it to customers but I'd venture to say that these are few and far between. Theyve already sold more than 30,000 so Im sure a few bad apples aré still gonna show up. But that happens with every product.
    AlexanderB and Chad Michael like this.
  15. Munjibunga

    Munjibunga Total Hyper-Elite Member Gold Supporting Member

    May 6, 2000
    San Diego (when not at Groom Lake)
    Independent Contractor to Bass San Diego
    Behringer owns Midas. It's old news. They were in the same pavilion at NAMM. I doubt Behringer is now the same quality as Midas, and I'd still go with Midas over Behringer any day.
  16. honest abe

    honest abe Supporting Member

    Mar 18, 2009
    Weslaco TX
    Audio Engineer for Marcos Witt
    ...and I'd pick a BMW 7 Series over a Hyundai Sonata. They are both great cars...just different price points.

    Although I will say the X32 has more in common with Midas's entry level digital board the Pro 2 than even they would like to admit. Don't get me wrong though. I've personally witnessed older Behringer power supplies go up in flames. The jury is still out on whether the X32 will be able to handle the every day grind of tour work. It seems they are definitely headed in the right direction. We will see.
  17. uOpt


    Jul 21, 2008
    Boston, MA, USA
    No, they have the same parent company. Very different thing.
  18. make sure you get the information right...owned by music group, not behringer. behringer is a "brand", Music Group is the manager of brands, or Parent Company as uOpt has mentioned...just happens to be the same guy that owns behringer owns Music Group..lol

    this makes it much easier for behringer to cross brand their products with more respected brands to try and give them more credibilty. look at the X32...would people of actually taken this seriously if it weren't for the klark FX and midas tech? probably not. but it definitely helped them sell their product! :)
  19. 'Music Group' is just Behringer's holding company in the Philippines. Always has been.

    Behringer bought Midas, and Klark Telnik, and Turbosound. Midas is owned by Behringer.
  20. i beg to differ....


    yes Music Group is a holding company, and the CEO is the same guy that owns Behringer...BUT it was not BEHRINGER that acquired the other brands

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