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Behringer XR12

Discussion in 'Live Sound [BG]' started by Kelloggsy, Dec 14, 2018.


  1. Kelloggsy

    Kelloggsy

    Dec 9, 2018
    Is anyone familiar with the Behringer XR12 PA system?
    I'd like to know how to switch in between mic and line input. Can't seem to find it anywhere in the manual either and can't get a hands-on the PA until next week during live.




    Thanks
     
  2. PCR

    PCR

    Apr 11, 2008
    I have an XR16 and an XR18.
    Not sure what you mean by switching between mic and line input. Do you mean if you need to switch between the DMX and 1/4 input on the dual input sockets?
     
  3. Kelloggsy

    Kelloggsy

    Dec 9, 2018
    See I have this problem you might be able to help.

    I’m using a RadialJDI (for my Bass) which is said to have a further -20db on our output to the PA. The thing is our PA had to max out the sound. I think they also had to increase the gain etc from the EQ. The JDI seems to have quieted out my signal to the PA.
    When I was using my PZ-PRE (Active DI+Pre-Amp) and my Acoustic Guitar, we did not have to touch anything in the EQ and the setting of “-12” in my channel Main Volume was already loud (because of the unity gain volume in the PZ-PRE). Then the problem started when I swap to the JDI/Bass combo.
    With the JDI/Bass combo, the FOH person tweaked around my EQ/Gain setting just to get a decent volume. They would otherwise had to increase my channel’s Main Volume up to “+10”ish while other instruments only needed around “0” or “-1” “-2” - if the EQ is untouched. My high-notes were definitely clipping badly from them tweaking the EQ around.

    Some people in the forum suggested that it might be that the input must be changed between a “line” to “mic” to get a decent volume. I definitely never seen this setting before in the Behringer so unsure how to go about that. Also I’ve always been playing with default setting, whatever there was when I was using the Acoustic Guitar.

    What would be your take on the Behringer settings / approach to solve this issue?
     
  4. Wasnex

    Wasnex

    Dec 25, 2011
    The XLR and 1/4" or on combi connectors so the plugs are colocated. I believe the directions you need are in section "7.3 Input Tab" on page 26 of the attached manual...note item 7.3.6 specifically.
     

    Attached Files:

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  5. Kelloggsy

    Kelloggsy

    Dec 9, 2018
    Alright so you do mean it’s combined as per 7.3.6, we don’t really have to do anything to switch between the two.
     
  6. Wasnex

    Wasnex

    Dec 25, 2011
    No I mean the XLR and 1/4" jack are colocated in a combi connector that looks like this:

    tbn:ANd9GcT5yR61UoxfWoIrDkY1MxA5xs-z59LuMDkWLyxo-kgxRZkbIh1CUM_jmCy1Z8YtFF9jH83Sk2KRpgU&usqp=CAc.

    Only one source can be selected at a time.

    Find section "7.3 Input Tab" on page 26 of the manual. Read the entire section but pay specific attention to line 6. which basically says there is software toggle on the Input Tab to switch between USB, Line, and Mic inputs.

    Next, view the image of the Input Tab on the same page. Find the number 6 above the image and note where the arrows from the number 6 point. Also note the heading under the arrows is Channel Source. This is where you make the selection between Mic, Line, USB. After the selection is made, Mic is assumed to be the XLR input and Line is assumed to be the 1/4" input.

    You can also view the XR12 block diagram on page 44. Rotate the image 90 degrees clockwise; the Mic and Line input will be in the lower left quadrant under the heading Analog Input Connectivity.
     
  7. Wasnex

    Wasnex

    Dec 25, 2011
    You're not looking for the mic/line switch. Many mixing boards insert a pad so the mic input can handle line level signals. The XR12 does not work this way, switching between mic and line with the XR12 just toggles between the XLR and 1/4" inputs.

    If the headamp on the mic input on the XR12 cannot be adjusted for enough gain to work with the JDI and your bass, you need to put something between your bass and the JDI to bump the signal up.

    To adjust the headamp see page 16 section "5.2 Input" Read the entire section and pay specific attention to line 4. Note where line 4 points in the associated image.
     
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  8. Kelloggsy

    Kelloggsy

    Dec 9, 2018
    Nice this is what I’ve been looking for.

    So you’re saying I only need to bump the headroom in the XR12 “input gain” (5.2 input line 4) and see if it fixes the volume issue.

    Another option maybe to insert a “pre-amp” in between the JDI and the Bass (maybe after the compressor) to bump the signal up.
    You are the man.
     
    Wasnex likes this.
  9. DWBass

    DWBass The Funkfather Supporting Member

    The JDI has a pad button. Set it to 0.
     
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  10. Kelloggsy

    Kelloggsy

    Dec 9, 2018
    Yep done.
     
  11. DWBass

    DWBass The Funkfather Supporting Member

    If your volume is still low, then it should be just a matter of turning up the input gain on the channel.
     
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  12. Kelloggsy

    Kelloggsy

    Dec 9, 2018
    Yes. Wasnex also suggested a pre-amp in between the DI and the Bass. Thanks!
     
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  13. tshapiro

    tshapiro Gold Supporting Member Supporting Member

    Aug 25, 2015
    Jax Florida
    Just a suggestion as I run the JDI as well... Just crank the output level of your compressor (assuming you have it on all the time)... that’s what I do.

    The JDI is designed for instruments with high (near line level) output and will drop it to mic level (that happens even with the Pad off as its a result of the transformer resistance). On many boards, the XLR is defaulted to be Line level at the lower input gain setting (Gain knob at 3) and Mic level with a higher gain setting (Gain knob at 8).

    Hope this helps.
     
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  14. DirtDog

    DirtDog

    Jun 7, 2002
    The Deep North
    @Wasnex - I’ve seen you use the term “headamp ” a couple of times now in different posts related to this topic. Could you clarify what you mean by “headamp”?
     
  15. Wasnex

    Wasnex

    Dec 25, 2011
    The term is common with Yamaha and some other manufacturers.

    A head amp is basically the front end or 1st gain stage of a channel strip, typically where there is lots of gain. Take look at the block diagram on p. 44 of the attached. Rotate the image 90 degrees CW and look in the lower left quadrant and find the XLR Mic input. To the right of the XLR connector you will see a little triangle. This triangle is the symbol for an amplifier. This amplifier is the head amp. Above the head amp is a variable gain control. The head amp feeds an AD converter.

    Adjust the head amp means the same thing as adjust the input gain.

    The term is defined in a similar manner on this page: Console Gain Structure – Live Audio Reference

    The head amp is the first amplifier a signal encounters after entering a mixing console. As microphone level signals are low (to the order of -30dBu), they must be amplified to line level for processing within the console. By applying different amounts of head amp gain to each channel depending on how high the source level is, each input can be normalized to a standard level so that fading each channel up to 0dB individually results in the same volume at the mix output.​
     

    Attached Files:

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  16. DirtDog

    DirtDog

    Jun 7, 2002
    The Deep North
    Oh, so same as a preamp in a channel strip. Never heard the term headamp in this context before.
     
  17. Wasnex

    Wasnex

    Dec 25, 2011
    FYI, The attached Midas manual uses the term, "head amp" four times.

    In this context, the head amp is in a digital stage box, but remotely controlled by the same input trimmer on the mixing console. From the users perspective it doesn't matter where the head amp is physically located as long as there is remote control. However, some stage boxes don't have the remote control feature. I have used older digital snakes where you had to use a separate computer program to adjust the head amps. With some really old ones, you had to go up on stage to make the adjustment. Nice to have a stage hand and a Clear-Com with that sort of setup.
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Dec 15, 2018
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  18. Kelloggsy

    Kelloggsy

    Dec 9, 2018
    He does mean the term conceptually. As for me who know little about the technical jargon, it was easier to grasp when he explained it that way!
     
  19. Kelloggsy

    Kelloggsy

    Dec 9, 2018
    Do you also use a pre-amp in between your bass and JDI?
     
  20. DirtDog

    DirtDog

    Jun 7, 2002
    The Deep North
    Oh, I know how it works. I've owned a bunch of different mixers, incl. the Behringer XR16. I just never heard it called a head amp before.
     

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