Bent endpin -- why 44 degrees?

Discussion in 'Setup & Repair [DB]' started by stefaniw80401, Jul 29, 2009.

  1. I've read most of the related threads on this topic, but none have addressed/questioned the angle. For example, wouldn't something less drastic than 44 degrees produce at least an improvement in the desired balance -- perhaps with less tendency for the bass to spin?

    I want to bend my own endpin, and was thinking of starting with just a little bend and working from there.

    Does this sound reasonable; has anybody tried this approach; how many times can I re-heat my endpin?

    - Mark
  2. arnoldschnitzer

    arnoldschnitzer AES Fine Instruments

    Feb 16, 2002
    New Mexico. USA
    I've wondered about this same matter. At 44 degrees, the endpin encounters the floor on its front edge. It would seem to me that it might balance better with less angle. Someone must have experimented with these and come up with the 44 degree angle. Why?
  3. I'm wondering why they just didn't go for the full on 45 degrees...
  4. Wil de Sola

    Wil de Sola

    Feb 22, 2006
    Wilton, CT
    New Standard Instrument Co
    Thr sound at 44 degrees is obviously better than at 45.
  5. eucalyptus


    Feb 17, 2009
    oakland, ca
    curious.. why a bent pin at all? i tried it once and it felt too weird, but i suppose one gets used to it. waiting for the day they invent a floating bass, a la the skateboard in 'back to the future'. anyway, i'd think a lesser (than 44 degree) angle would be easier to negotiate..
  6. Eric Hochberg

    Eric Hochberg Supporting Member

    Jul 7, 2004
    That's one thing people use the eggpin for, to experiment with angles and length, then when you find the best combination for you and your bass you can have a Laborie pin drilled and sized to match the eggpin. Or you can use the eggpin and not drill.

    I imagine that the 44ยบ angle was what worked best for Rabbath and his bass. Don't forget, a bent endpin remains in its traditional socket, center of the rib while the Rabbath style is mounted an inch or so from the back plate. That changes the balance quite a bit.
  7. Right. I'm currently experimenting with setting the back edge of my bass on a foam (yoga) block to simulate a change in balance. This little bit makes a difference, hence my question about how much angle do we really need to be effective/useful.
  8. Eric Hochberg

    Eric Hochberg Supporting Member

    Jul 7, 2004
    I think it depends on the bass and what each individual player finds effective for their playing style. I don't think there is a "one size fits all" solution.
  9. JtheJazzMan


    Apr 10, 2006
    Heres my final design of a bent end pin.

    The angle that the pin is bent at is not the only variable. Its a physics puzzle, really. The important thing is how far the tip touching the ground is away from the centre of gravity on a horizontal plane. The force you feel as the bass pressing against you is a result of that leverage.

    I was not keen on the bent end pin, the force and angle at which it applies to the ebony plug is too much to use safely I think, not to mention its way too springy.

    My little thing distributes the weight over 3 points onto the endblock, using an extra metal bar with rubber stoppers. Totally solid and stable.

    I cant tell whether theres an adverse affect on sound. Just changing the position of the bass relative to your ears makes it sound fuller. I dont have any complaints about the sound so Im still using it happily.

    All the parts are from the local hardware store

    View attachment 134793
  10. JT, thanks for that picture -- I saw it in another thread from you on this topic. I'd like to make one similar, but I cannot seem to find 10mm rod. 3/8" rod is a little sloppy. How did you cope with this?
  11. JtheJazzMan


    Apr 10, 2006
    A few other things: Ive offset the tip towards the treble side, almost in line with the treble foot.

    Now the bass sits solidly against my body without falling either side. It leaves both my hands free and I can even bow open strings without touching the bass with my left hand.
  12. JtheJazzMan


    Apr 10, 2006
    I only used 10mm threaded rod on the part that supports the bass.

    I used a pair of 12mm bolts, and evenly ground the unthreaded section to make a 10mm section that goes into the ebony plug.

    The bent bolt that touches the ground is also 12mm.

    You can improvise, all you need absolutely is something that will fit into the current plug. Just make sure you use at least 12mm or imperial equivalent on load bearing sections, particularly metal at angles, otherwise the metal isnt strong enough
  13. basshog


    Nov 29, 2008
    THAT is the one thing that so many people don't realize about the bent pin. The 5-7 degrees to the left is what prevents the "rolling away" effect, especially in bigger basses. Rabbath doesn't have/need this in his tiny Quenoil (spelling?). I'm glad you actually experimented and found a good balance for your setup.
  14. JtheJazzMan


    Apr 10, 2006
    Yes rabbath has a very interesting bass, the shoulders have a steeper slope, and his bass seems to taper depth wise going up to the neck. So his straight back pin obviously works with his body and his bass, but its different for other people and basses.

    When I look at the edge of the bass that touches my body, its obvious why it falls to the left. So I just offset the balance to counteract that and presto!

    Look ma no hands! :D