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Berg AE410+Shuttle 6.0...and when to turn down?

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by KPO2000, Mar 13, 2008.


  1. KPO2000

    KPO2000 Supporting Member Supporting Member

    Sep 5, 2001
    MA
    I've been playing the Berg AE410 with a GB Shuttle 6.0 for a couple weeks now and the pairing seems pretty solid. Last night, though, either we were playing too loud and/or I'm still getting the hang of the new rig...regardless, this is a question that I've always been too embarrassed to ask, but for the sake of your bass cabinet and to avoid blowing a speaker...when do you know you need to turn down?

    1) When the speak cone is moving with every note?
    2) You hear distortion and you know you're not overdriving the preamp or clipping the amp?
    3) Your bowels begin to churn.:rollno:
     
  2. #2.

    I believe the 6.0 has an 'output clip' light on it, so that's another thing to look at. If that output clip is coming on a lot, turn it down.

    Unless you do something really stupid, you should be able to push that AE410 as hard as you want with that head.
     
  3. Let me start by saying, I play VERY loud at times. I found myself paying attention to the lowest note(s), whether it be the low B of a 5 string, or the low E to determine if I'm playing too loud for the cab. I usually will hit the lowest note with some authority, and if the speaker just "doesn't sound right" or musical, I turn the lows down a bit, if that doesn't work, then the volume comes down. Just use your ear. If the amp has an output clip light, I just watch the light instead of listening to the cab. For years, this technique has kept me from blowing any speakers. I agree with Ken though, I don't think that Shuttle 6.0 would harm the AE410 no matter what you pumped into it. I've been using the DB750 with my AE410 for a few weeks now, and a few times I thought the speakers were going to rip out of the box, but that AE410 can handle it no problem! :D
     
  4. I'd say 2, 2.5.

    I personally like my speaker cones to move when I play, it makes the notes come out better ;)
     
  5. Fretlessboy

    Fretlessboy

    Nov 29, 2007
    St Augustine Florida
    Endorsing artist GENZ BENZ/HERCULES STANDS/XSonics
    If you are hitting the output clip light, I believe it is like 6db of action before it actually is clipping. I always bass it off the sound I am hearing. If it sounds bad it's not right... back off
     
  6. +1 I like that about the Genz stuff... it's kind of a 'pre warning' that you are getting close to being in trouble... versus an 'after the fact' indication that you are clipping. Nice!
     
  7. joelb79

    joelb79

    Mar 22, 2006
    Lansing, Michigan
    Although, 6db is a nice warning.. I can still get more than 6db depending on how i strike the strings. Although other manufacturers should pay CLOSE attention to what Genz is doing there, thats just plain smart. :D
     
  8. Fretlessboy

    Fretlessboy

    Nov 29, 2007
    St Augustine Florida
    Endorsing artist GENZ BENZ/HERCULES STANDS/XSonics
    exactly
     
  9. agedhorse

    agedhorse Supporting Member Commercial User

    Feb 12, 2006
    Davis, CA (USA)
    Development Engineer-Mesa, Product Support-Genz Benz
    The LED come on at the output limit point, from there you have another 6dB of limiter/soft clip compliance before actual amp clipping takes place. This is a transition zone, similar to a tube output stage at it approaches clipping. The LED is labeled clip/limit, as it serves a dual purpose. Some folks like the sound of the soft-clip limiter, so it's ok to hit that when digging in as it will sound a little more tube like.

    I have never understood an output clip or limit LED that doesn't give at least a little warning... without some warning, by the time the light turns on it's too late.
     
  10. tombowlus

    tombowlus If it sounds good, it is good Gold Supporting Member

    Apr 3, 2003
    North central Ohio
    Editor-in-Chief, Bass Gear Magazine
    I tend to agree with what's already been posted, but I'll add that sometimes people do drastic things to their EQ (either at the amp or via an onboard EQ), and then wonder why they overload input stages. Keep an eye on how much boosting you are doing with your EQ, and this should help you control your gain staging.

    Tom.
     
  11. Fretlessboy

    Fretlessboy

    Nov 29, 2007
    St Augustine Florida
    Endorsing artist GENZ BENZ/HERCULES STANDS/XSonics
    I my mind I said it the you did. lol I know what I meant. It's a nice feature. You really know where you are with it. Also if you are getting in to it "too soon" make some adjustments in your other volumes and you should be able to solveit if you want to. I have found I hit the clip light less when the channel volume is higher and the main isn't past 2 oclock


     
  12. Eublet

    Eublet

    Jul 28, 2006
    The Soft clip limiter is cool, and a desired thing many time for me.

    That said, I also like to run a mild amount of compression via an EBS Multi-comp. The EBS is a pretty punchy compressor that reacts very nicely, even to machine-gun 16ths style playing. Just don't up the compression to much, but let it smooth out the lowest notes just a touch, and you can keep your volume up higher than you otherwise could.
     
  13. I got my Hartke 2.5XL the other day, and it's a pretty big cab for only being 2x10, but I had the Shuttle 3.0's master on 1 in my room, and I wanted to see what it could do.
    So I turned it up to about 6-7, and the speakers started moving visibly, so I turned it down. The clip light wasn't flashing at all, but I was concerned about my cab. Is this a bad thing if the speakers start moving, should I turn it down?
    This is my first amp/rig over 15 watts, so just a bit inexperienced.
     
  14. Fretlessboy

    Fretlessboy

    Nov 29, 2007
    St Augustine Florida
    Endorsing artist GENZ BENZ/HERCULES STANDS/XSonics
    you speakers are supposed to move. Now if they are moving in excess there could be an issue but here again, what did it sound like? If it sounded finme then it was fine.
     
  15. Eublet

    Eublet

    Jul 28, 2006
    Just listen for audible stress on the drivers. If you hear rattling, buzzing, or low-end breakup, commonly called farting, the streakers are maxing out.
     
  16. murphy

    murphy

    May 5, 2004
    Toronto, Canada
    I thought people stopped streaking in the 70's!!!
     
  17. jokerjkny

    jokerjkny

    Jan 19, 2002
    NY / NJ / PHL
    honestly,

    if you're pushing that much volume, or at least trying to hit a volume that you feel is dangerous to your speakers, time to add another cab, no?
     
  18. Eublet

    Eublet

    Jul 28, 2006
    LOL! Must have been a freudian slip! But now that it's out, I remember my college days when I'd go to see football games at the University of Alabama in Tuscaloosa. Many nights after a big win, in the wee hours of the morning, a group of drunken folks would go streaking down the main drag on what's called The Strip where a lot of the college bars are. It did kind of sound like rattling, buzzing, and farting noises! :D
     
  19. My guess is the 6.0 will give up the ghost before the AE410. With the 4ohm AE410 and the 4ohm minimum Shuttle 6.0, adding another cab (in general a good idea) would not be possible.

    However, if the rig continues to feel 'pushed', the OP might try a head with more power. The AE410 can handle it. It's amazing what an additional few hundred watts can do when (or if) you are running a smaller head at its absolute limit. While my F1 has enough power for the vast majority of my gigs, the additional 250 watts of the SD800 makes a difference at extremely high volumes... the extra wattage results in a somewhat more open low end, and a less compressed feeling when really pumping versus my 500-600 watt amps like the F1, the 502, the TF550, etc. TBers describe similar results comparing the TF550 to the TF750, and comparing one side of the Epi902 to the 502, etc.

    It's not really a volume thing, more of a lack of compression and strain, if that makes any sense.

    A cab like the AE410 or Epi410UL can handle A LOT of power before it gives up the ghost! IMO and IME.
     
  20. Rob Mancini

    Rob Mancini Guest

    Feb 26, 2008
    LOL! Yeah, I'm always blown away by people who say things like, "I didn't buy ____ cabs because their speakers move too much." They're designed to move! If they didn't move, you wouldn't get any sound.
     

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