Berg REF112 vs. Barefaced BB2 vs. AudioKinesis Changling 112T

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by jazztonebass, Feb 3, 2018.

  1. jazztonebass

    jazztonebass

    Apr 23, 2012
    If you were choosing one of these "Super 12's" which would it be and why? Powered by a Forte. Looking for balance and versatility to cover a wide range of musical styles.
     
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  2. I bought Bergantino HDN1-12 for my forte’. All it needs is one more of the same Perfection that my lower back appreciates!
     
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  3. jnewmark

    jnewmark Just wanna play the groove. Supporting Member

    Aug 31, 2006
    Stax 1966
    Third St. Cigar Records staff musician.
    Curious as to why the Changeling over the Hathor ?
     
  4. jazztonebass

    jazztonebass

    Apr 23, 2012
    I am leaning towards the Changling because I am very curious about the rear firing driver. I am also considering the Hathor 1x12 in the tall version. Tough to decide given the high praise all of these cabs have received.
     
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  5. Mike Arnopol

    Mike Arnopol Inactive Supporting Member Commercial User

    Jan 4, 2005
    Chicago
    Owner of MAS Soundworks
    They're all great cabs. Just voiced differently. You really need to try them to see what fits your needs.
     
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  6. jazztonebass

    jazztonebass

    Apr 23, 2012
    If only I could find all three of these cabs together, in one place, I would be thrilled to compare.
     
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  7. charlie monroe

    charlie monroe Gold Supporting Member

    Feb 14, 2011
    Buffalo, NY
    Check to see if anyone is organizing a TB GTG near you.

    I hear amazing bits and bobs of boutique gear turn out.
     
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  8. nostatic

    nostatic Supporting Member

    Jun 18, 2004
    Lompoc, CA
    Endorsing Artist: FEA Labs
    The main difference between the cabs (other than crossover and some size details) is how the upper frequencies are reproduced. You have tweeter (Berg) vs compression driver (Barefaced) vs 3" paper cone (AK). No question in my mind which I prefer, having played through all three. But everyone has a different set of needs and expectations. I just find that tweeter cabs tend to have a hole somewhere in the upper mids. And compression drivers sometimes too laid back and don't really handle dirt or aggression well. The 3" doesn't extend as high as a tweeter, but I don't necessarily want those frequencies.

    One caveat to the tweeter comment is use on a cab like Mike's, which uses 3" paper cones and the tweeter is there to add some air.
     
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  9. DukeLeJeune

    DukeLeJeune rational romantic mystic cynical idealist Gold Supporting Member Commercial User

    Nov 24, 2008
    Princeton, Texas
    Owner & designer, AudioKinesis; Auth. mfg, Big E (Home Audio only)
    Thank you jazztonebass for including one of my cabs on your shortlist.

    You might want to contact Mike Arnopol and see what he would suggest from his lineup. His cabs do things that mine cannot in terms of low-end extension and articulation. Often there's a tradeoff relationship between those two, but ime his cabs can beat reflex cabs in both areas at the same time. Wish I could say that what his cabs do well stops there, but unfortunately it continues on up the spectrum. I happen to think wide, uniform dispersion matters and dangit his cabs excel at that. Mike works with the energy of three ordinary people, so he has evolved the implementation of manipulated vortex technology fast and far. He is the competitor that scares me the most. Ask about his 1x8 cab, as it is probably competition for my 112s.

    And no, I don't get any kick-backs. His cabs are complicated and hard to build, so my strategy is simple: Work him to death. (Order a Flex 210!!)
     
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2018
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  10. alaskaleftybass

    alaskaleftybass Will Hanbury, Jr. In Memoriam

    Mar 21, 2012
    Sitka, Alaska
    No experience with the Changling but one of my great regrets in life is selling a pair of Hathor 1203's. WHAT?? YOU SOLD YOUR HATHORS??? I must have been temporarily insane. But I do have a chance to buy another pair-- have a friend playing the lottery for me in Kentucky... :blackeye:
     
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  11. DukeLeJeune

    DukeLeJeune rational romantic mystic cynical idealist Gold Supporting Member Commercial User

    Nov 24, 2008
    Princeton, Texas
    Owner & designer, AudioKinesis; Auth. mfg, Big E (Home Audio only)
    So now I have TWO dogs in the fight? Sweet!! But your moniker makes me think there's really only one that belongs in there.

    The Changeling's rear-firing mid theoretically makes it easier for the other musicians to hear what you are doing than its Hathor counterpart, and that might be nice for jazz (or at least improv jazz).
     
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  13. MDBass

    MDBass Supporting Member

    Nov 7, 2012
    Los Angeles, CA
    Endorsing Artist: Dingwall-Fender-Bergantino-Dunlop-Tech 21-Darkglass-Nordstrand
    Literally finishing reamps today for the first 6, will be picking up Changeling and 12/6/1 cabs to add to the lineup the following week.
     
  14. MDBass

    MDBass Supporting Member

    Nov 7, 2012
    Los Angeles, CA
    Endorsing Artist: Dingwall-Fender-Bergantino-Dunlop-Tech 21-Darkglass-Nordstrand
    Self effacing AND funny?

    You might be my favorite person on TB Duke
     
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  15. DukeLeJeune

    DukeLeJeune rational romantic mystic cynical idealist Gold Supporting Member Commercial User

    Nov 24, 2008
    Princeton, Texas
    Owner & designer, AudioKinesis; Auth. mfg, Big E (Home Audio only)
    So... my subliminal plot is working??

    [Montomery Burns voice] [and the fingertips-just-touching thing] EXCCCCCELLENT!! [/fingertips] [/voice]
     
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2018
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  16. For the record, that Faital three gets just as high as a lot of tweeters and will match many large format compression drivers. However, most magnetic pickups will not play as high as that unless they are low impedance and buffered/ran through a preamp (Alembic, EMG, Zon's or MTD's Barts, Q-tuner, Lace Aluma, etc.)
     
  17. I have compared a TC112 right next to Dukes 18633 and with my Zon, I could not tell a difference, at least not on top end extension and detail.
     
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  18. DukeLeJeune

    DukeLeJeune rational romantic mystic cynical idealist Gold Supporting Member Commercial User

    Nov 24, 2008
    Princeton, Texas
    Owner & designer, AudioKinesis; Auth. mfg, Big E (Home Audio only)
    I didn't realize that the pickups could be the limiting factor as far as top-end extension. Thanks for the education!

    While "on paper" the 3" Faital cone goes up to 20 kHz, imo it beams enough that the effective top end is more like 12-14 kHz. But apparently out in the real world, where the top end of the little Faital cone is indistinguishable from that of a pretty good horn with arguably decent dispersion, that might not make any significant difference!
     
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  19. Al Kraft

    Al Kraft Supporting Member

    May 2, 2016
    Northern Virginia
    I will vouch for this and it's a lot more significant than I had expected! While it worked out well for me, my drummer was very impressed with the difference. I think you'll also find that in smaller venues with just the bass cab carrying the day (no PA/FOH support) there is a much richer bass sound in the house.

    As a final thought, the voicing options Duke gives us on the C112T are very useful and unmatched in other cab designs IME.
     
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  20. CoffeeLove

    CoffeeLove Supporting Member

    Love my Reference 112, the tweeter is sooo smooth. When combined with its brother (Ref 210) I am in tone nirvana. I know some people do not like mixing speaker sizes, but these things were meant to work in unison, round tight bottom from the 112 and articulate/punchy mids from the 210, with a smooth and articulate top end, just fantastic. Ok, that probably did not help at all.:)
     
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