Bergantino TOO Colored?

What amp are you using?

 

my S12 + S15 BagEnds mid punched like nothing else.

I'm moving into a pair of 12" Bergantino thou

 

Yeah, I'm very curious as to which amp you are using. I've never had a problem with any combonation of Bergs that I've used. They always cut through. And I have to say that I don't find my 112's too scooped in the mids at all. Actually, they are quite punchy and can be used in any musical situation. Best little speakers I've ever played, hands down.

 

Based on my experience with a Berg 2x12, I'm thinking that maybe the problem is in bass, or the amp. What kind of bass are you playing? What kind of strings? How old are they? It would be cheaper to try some new strings versus a new speaker.

My Berg 2x12 cuts through everything.

jd

 

My suggestion to you is to add a Raven Labs True Blue EQ to the Ashdown. It will give you what the Ashdown EQ cannot.

I like the Berg 12's better than the 210 myself. I've owned both and I like the midrange of the 12's better.

 

Larzito:

I don't think either of those amps are enough power for the 210/115 setup...if i'm not mistaken, each of those will only provide about 300 watts max (if that) for each cab.

Before you scrap the bergies -- try bridging a QSC RMX 2450 or PLX 2402 (or similarly rated amp) into both of them...I am willing to bet you will notice a huge difference. I wasn't sold on my bergie 210 until I bridged my power amp. Then WOW!

give it a whirl...

-Aram

edit: PS -- the amps I mentioned will give you about 1000w into each cab in bridge mode...not that you will use full power, but the Bergs need some pushing to open up.

 

I have NO problem cutting through with any of my Bergie cabs

 

Have you been able to try other combonations of Berg cabs live? I used to have the same Ashdown head with two 210 cabs. I used one of the cabs most of the time. I thought the sound was killin! I never had a problem cutting through. Have you tried to adjust the tube gain on the Ashdown? If you push it more than you will get more grind and it should push through a loud band. Make sure you're using a good speaker cable and instrument cables as well. What kind of music are you playing?

If you continue to have a problem then you should definately call Jim Bergantino. He's a fantastic guy and he may have more suggestions for you. In all honesty those cabs together are more mid shy than his cabs with 12's. That goes with any company's 210/115 combo. You should just look into getting one HT322. You'll never need another cab again.

 

Is your main problem not being able to hear yourself clearly? If you haven't already, you might try getting your speakers up off the ground.

I use a EA CXL-112 and I've found that putting my speaker on a 2 ft. stool has made a big difference in being able to hear myself clearly on stage.

 

I had the same setup as listed: ABM 500 into Berg 2x10/1x15.
The cabs farted like nobody's business when I had the Ashdown set on the same settings as my SWR cabs of the same configuration. Never could dial out that fart, so I sold 'em.

 

Hey Larzito,

Not sure then why the Bergs are letting you down -- maybe the overall vibe, like you said, just isn't for you. If you can though, you might want to try someone's power amp in bridge mode just for the hell of it to see if it is lack of clean power (or amp clipping) that's displeasing you tonally...

In my setup I have had the best luck running my QSC in bridge mono (so 1300w into the 210), keeping the power amp volume all the way up, and adjusting the volume on my Demeter '201s (it's usually below 9:00 as well). It sounds infinitely better than just running one channel of the QSC (which was like 500w). I usually keep the preamp eq flat, and adjust the tones via my bass's preamp (bartolini). I find the sound to be smooth, with plenty of lows and sweet highs -- if i need more low mids, I crank up the onboard eq, which is voiced at 250hz, and I can cut like it's nobody's business.

Otherwise you could call Jim and see if he's had similar complaints with your configuration. He seems to correspond with everyone who owns his cabs, so he must have come across this issue at some point.

Anyway, I hope it all works out for you in the end -- i'm curious to see how you resolve this issue...keep us posted.

-Aram

 

Don't be afraid to experiment with some weird settings on your amps.

I have an HT322 with a Dem 201S pre and QSC PLX1602 power.

I kept searching for a tone that was clean and cutting in a live situation. Took me about a month of experimenting, but I finally found a combination of preamp and bass guitar (SR5) settings that I totally dig.

Do talk to Jim B., he can probably help.

 

I had this same conversation recently over the email with a fellow TBer. I know exactly where you're comming from.

The way I deal with it is to start the gig with flat EQ. I don't even try and pull a sound with the bass on it's own. It's pointless. Then I EQ to suite the onstage mix.

It may sound bad on it's own that's irrelevent unless you're playing on your own.

Oh and EQ with your ears, not your eyes. Ignor the shape of the EQ curve and ignor people who tell you it "looks" funny.

 

See the post on flat frequency resp. I also play with no EQ on my amp and let the bass do the talking. In a live setting you may be pleasantly surprised. I am thankful that bassists are becoming aware that the boutique bass sound by itself is not appropriate for live settings. That the inherent coloration in some equipment translates to musical pleasure in the mix. THE SEARCH FOR YOUR SOUND CONTINUES....

 

If this is your goal, and if the Bergies have too much coloration for you, then I would suggest either EA or Accugroove cabs. I have a bunch of the VL series cabs, and I have had a chance to check out a number of the Accugroove cabs in a store. Still haven't had a chance to A/B the Accugrooves to my VL series cabs, but I am looking forward to doing just that!

I also own a pair of Epifani cabs (T-112/T-110UL), which i consider to satisfy the "sweet, natural mids with booty and articulation" factor very well. However, when I bought these, I was torn between either them or an Accugroove Mini Whappo. I'd have to say that I slightly preferred the sound of the Mini Whappo, but it was close, and the flexibility of two lighter cabs (especially that feather light T-110UL) won me over. And while the Epi's did meet all of your criteria stated above, the Accugroove cabs were definitely less colored. In truth, even though they cost a goodly bit, those Accugroove cabs are very, very impressive.

I have had a chance to A/B my Epifani Mini Rig to my EA cabs (2 VL-210's, 3 VL-208's). While both setups are very articulate and balanced, it is striking how differently they are voiced. Compared to the EA VL series cabs, the Epi's sound upper-mid shy (though I wouldn't have thought that this would be the case, based upon how the Epi's sound compared to other cabs). Compared to the Epi's, the EA's seem to lack high end "sparkle" and low end thickness (although the VL-210's sound deeper, just not as thick). Of course, the VL series cabs have tons of mids (and with 5 of them, I am listening to 10 mid-range drivers!), and Epifani are known for their killer tweeters, so I guess these results should not be surprising.

Well, I am sorry that I can't comment on Bergies directly, but I hope this slightly off topic dissertation is of some assistance.

Tom.