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Bergantino/Walter Woods

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by KJung, Feb 20, 2006.


  1. For those of you who have read some of my posts over the last year on the Walter Woods Ultra, you know I have a love/hate relationship with that amp...

    Love.... size, weight, power, open sound, dual channel

    Hate (sometimes).... the rather brittle treble response in some situations and a somewhat underwhelming deep low end.

    Well... I recently purchased a Bergantino HT210S cab (4ohm). I now know why Jim likes the Walter Woods amp so much. I have never heard the WW sound better. There is something in the voicing of that Berg that brings out the absolute best in the Walter (and ditto for the Walter and Berg). The low end is punchy and clean, and the treble response is open, airy and sweet. It's an absolutely wonderful rig for moderate size EB jazz and pop type gigs.

    As a side note... I feel my Thunderfunk also sounds great through the Berg (although that amp sounds great through everything). However, IMO... the AI Focus/Berg pairing is not a good thing.... very dull sounding with a very 'clanky' treble response and a mushy low end.

    Similarly, the Walter Woods sounds 'just OK' through my EpiUL's (the treble response is 'over the top' and rather harsh, and the low end sounds very thin to me), and the WW sounds absolutely HORRIBLE through my Schroeders.... harsh and thin.

    It's amazing to me how different these heads and cabs sound in different combinations.

    WW/Bergantino...... it's a VERY GOOD thing... especially if you are into the New York 'post fusion' sort of sound... Anthony Jackson, Lincoln Goines, Richard Bona, etc.... that fat, ultra articulate but very warm tone.

    Thanks Jim!


    Ken
     
  2. Munjibunga

    Munjibunga Total Hyper-Elite Member Gold Supporting Member

    May 6, 2000
    San Diego (when not at Groom Lake)
    Independent Contractor to Bass San Diego
    You oughtta hear it through an HT322.
     
  3. I bet that sounds great... just too heavy for me! The Walter is a very fussy amp... it can sound great, but it can sound really bad also. You want to hear something nasty... try a Walter through an EdenXLT... yuck!
     
  4. vision

    vision It's all about the groove! Supporting Member

    Feb 25, 2005
    Ann Arbor, MI
    Sounds cool! So which rig will win it out for you for the small-medium jazz gigs...WW into Bergie or Thunderfunk into Schreoder?
     
  5. The Bergie for the Jazz type gigs for sure... either with the WW or the Thunderfunk (the Berg/Funk sounds great also). The Schroeder 1210 puts out MUCH more volume than the Berg 210S... but it's also much wider... lower lows and sizzlier highs. The warm mids and smooth highs of the Berg really fit nicely with a fingerstyle, fat sound requirement... like playing an EB jazz gig.

    The bad news is... for what the Berg/WW costs, you could buy a nice P Bass, and SVT and an 810 cab... and say to heck with those little jazz gigs!
     
  6. Munjibunga

    Munjibunga Total Hyper-Elite Member Gold Supporting Member

    May 6, 2000
    San Diego (when not at Groom Lake)
    Independent Contractor to Bass San Diego
    Funny you should mention that. I A/B'd the WWU through the HT322 an D-410XLT. I got them both to sound great, but it took a little tweaking. The WWU is indeed fussy ... it takes a little futzing around to dial in that funky EQ.
     
  7. Man, I just hate the Walter high end through that Eden crossover and tweeter. And the Eden mids bring out the worst in the Walter to my ear. However, personal preference and IMO as always.

    But man.... the Walter flat (with a little low end bump) into the Berg is something to hear!
     
  8. Tampabass

    Tampabass Supporting Member

    Feb 16, 2006
    Tampa
    I know you are, but what am I?
    for small jazz gigs on acoustic bass, I'm still loving my '70s vintage Polytone Minibrute III -- sound is deep and sweet, and projects nicely. And the amp isn't a backbreaker.<br>
    I bought it about 8 years ago as part of a package with a plywood bass. Paid something like $1050 for the package, and sold the bass for about that much (I already had a carved bass).
     
  9. +1.... those polytone's always sounded great with DB, and the AI stuff reminds me a little of that sound... super warm. However.... not so good with EB. The Walter seems to be one of the few amps that truly works for electric and DB... and that has enough power to play loud EB gigs, and enough warmth and 'flatness' to use with DB.

    Throw in the double channels with full controls, and it really is the ultimate doubler's amp. It just needs to be matched pretty carefully with the right cab to sound great IMO.
     
  10. Tampabass

    Tampabass Supporting Member

    Feb 16, 2006
    Tampa
    I know you are, but what am I?
    Yeah, you're right -- Poly's perfect for DB, but I never quite got the sound I wanted out of it with my Stingray.<br>But I've almost always used other amps for the Stingray.<br>I did, however, find that my SWR Baby Blue worked really well for acoustic and electric.<br>Question: what do you think about Epifani, particularly 112, in terms of use for both upright and electric?
     
  11. I'm not a DB player, but fellow TBer Wilbyman uses an AI/EpiUl combination for both electric and DB. I think he actually prefers the Epi for electric (I think he uses a 112 and 110 UL stack) and a Bergantino112 for DB. The Berg seems to have a more 'DB friendly' treble response, and a more compressed low end, whereas the Epi is quite a bit 'wider'... i.e., more low lows and high hi's.

    If Will doesn't chime in here, drop him a PM and he will give you the scoop. I've heard recordings that he's posted, and his tone is really nice... so he should be 'in the know' on this!

    PS... I also thought the original Baby Blue sounded great... just not enough volume for most of my situations.
     
  12. Tampabass

    Tampabass Supporting Member

    Feb 16, 2006
    Tampa
    I know you are, but what am I?
    Thanks for the info!<br>I'm new to the talkbass forums, but "old" to bass playing (have been playing since I was 13), and I'm not as tech savvy as I ought to be, or could be.<br>So this feedback really helps.
     
  13. Welcome to TB. I have so many friends that double, and I've heard so many DB rigs live, that I'm very sensitive to the need for doublers to find a 'one amp/one cab' solution. There are lot's of discussions on this over on the DB side, in the amp section.... some very good info over there. I also play a 'semi-acoustic piezo instrument (the Rob Allen) that has at least a similarity to the DB sound, so that gives me at least a little bit of insight into the difficulty of translating an acoustic sound to an audience through an amp.

    The new AI Focus might be right up your alley... very small and light, very powerful, and very 'flat' type sound that works well with a DB... but is loud enough for most electric gigs. Nice stuff, and not overly expensive.

    Make sure to PM Will if he doesn't chime in here... he's really on top of the doubling issue.
     
  14. Tampabass

    Tampabass Supporting Member

    Feb 16, 2006
    Tampa
    I know you are, but what am I?
    As of now, because of expenses, etc., I'm probably going to keep on using my Polytone for small DB-only gigs.<br>I'm purchasing an EPI NYC T-112 (from a talkbass member), and I'm planning on building a system with that plus an amp and maybe a second EPI for my jazz/funk/experimental band -- I play DB and EB in that band.<br>Question: that EPI is rated at 300 watts/8 ohms. I'd like to buy an amp strong enough to adequately power that 112 and also power a potential second speaker (10 or 12 or maybe 15). Any suggestions?
     
  15. That's a great cab, and is really loud for its size. It's an 8ohm cab, so that has to be taken into account. From the other amps you've mentioned that you like, the AI Focus might really be the thing. It puts out about 400 watts or so into 8ohms and 800 into 4ohms... so perfect for you cab, and also allows some room for growth if you ever add another cab.

    The upside to the Focus is that it is really small and light (I think its about 6 pounds and about the size of a cigar box). They are plenty loud, and have a certain warmth to the sound. The downside is that the EQ is relatively limiting... it's pretty much a 'one sound box'. However, the 'flat' sound of it is very nice. It won't give you super aggressive sound (like if you like a 70's J sound with new roundwounds), but I don't think that's your thing anyway.

    They make a two channel version with effects, and a single channel version without effects. Check out their site... it's very informative. Nice stuff. I know Low Down Sound is a dealer for them (in Detroit) and that they offer the stuff at good prices and can ship anywhere. They also make a very small unit called the Clarus SL... it's about 3 pounds or so, and puts out 200 watts (I think) into 8ohms. The Epi is efficient enough that even that would be plenty loud for most EB situations.

    Lot's of other nice heads out there (EAiAmp500, Thunderfunk550, EdenWT550). However, they are all quite a bit larger and heavier and each have their positives and negatives.
     
  16. Tampabass

    Tampabass Supporting Member

    Feb 16, 2006
    Tampa
    I know you are, but what am I?
    thanks:)
     
  17. Wilbyman

    Wilbyman

    Sep 10, 2003
    Parkersburg, WV
    I thought I felt my spidey sense going off...here I am (and thanks Ken for the compliment).

    I don't think the Epi UL112 (or T112) is a great doubling solution, though I'm sure people do it with success...I'm just not one of them. The reason your Polytone sounds so good for DB is that it (I believe) is a small sealed box. I think the tight response of the small sealed box (Berg 112) is best for upright. The UL112 is a big old 112, and I think it moves too much air for upright...a little too boomy. Also, the tweeter is voiced for a nice shimmery top-end for electric bass. For DB, this translates into unwanted finger noise.

    However, the UL112 is an incredibly good sounding cab for electric bass. It just sounds fabulous for that application...I can't say enough good things about it. The T-112 is probably similar to the UL soundwise, with more bottom and a little less upper mid.

    Amps: There are as many different setups as there are doublers, I think...everybody is using something different. You might do a search. I like the sound of the Acoustic Image stuff and have been using it for a while. The weight, sound and power are terrific and the prices are super reasonable. Some people don't like the warm/punchy (but pretty neutral) electric bass sound of the AI amps, but I really love that sound.

    So, my solution is a Clarus SL with UL112 (and UL110) for electric jazz gigs and the SL with a Berg HT112 for upright.

    I just got some new clips with my upright rig last night, send me an email address via PM and I'll get them to you. I think live soundclips are much much more useful than anything I could say.

    W
     
  18. Wilbyman

    Wilbyman

    Sep 10, 2003
    Parkersburg, WV
    Clips coming at you.