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BETA-10CX Beta-12CX ??

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by kringle77, Aug 7, 2012.


  1. kringle77

    kringle77 Supporting Member

    Jul 30, 2004
    Massena NY
    Why don't I see more about these two drivers on here? Both, especially the 10" have pretty good specs for bass cabs. They also both have fairly flat response up to where a tweet would be used. It seems like these would be the drivers to use for any vertical cabs or vertical pa columbs. I actually have the 10" on order with the apt50 tweet and 3.5k crossover. Almost wish that I would have got the CX12 because the response is flatter but, the CX10 has 5mm xmax to the cx12's 3.5mm.
     
  2. The APT-150 is a sweet tweeter.
    Here is a Link to an RTA I did on mine a couple years back.

    The test was run using an Eminence 1.6K crossover, 1w/1m, on axis.
    The Low Pass side was an 8-ohm dummy resistor load.
    I wanted to see where the horn cutoff is.

    1.6 KHz is far below the 3.5 KHz recommended crossover.
    APT-150 should be crossed over at 3.5 KHz, so this was only a test at 1 watt.
     
  3. kringle77

    kringle77 Supporting Member

    Jul 30, 2004
    Massena NY
    I thought it's raw response curve was more what I wanted than the asd driver. Thanks for the link. The beta 10cx just seems to have alot going for it for a bass cab, fairly flat response, good 5mm xmax, not too heavy, affordable, easily replacable and can be used in a small cab. I actually modeled it in a slot ported cab to sound like my nv610 cab very easily. I'll have it on thursday I think. I could see somone building a 6x10 using these drivers, low passing 4 at 500hz, and only using the high frequency driver in one of them. Or to save alittle weight, you could match it up with the 2510 II.
     
  4. joelb79

    joelb79

    Mar 22, 2006
    Lansing, Michigan
    I think that sounds like an expensive idea for a crossover that would have little need for a bass player. The 10's are going to sound better full range, and the tweeter is icing on the cake for most players. To me, the design of a coaxial speaker is about phase coherent transition of the horn and speaker, and when your already talking about a multiple 10 box you already have phase alignment issues with using multiple mid frequency devices. Again, for the kind of nearfield amplification needs of a bass player, the phase coherent aspect is wasted.

    A better design of a coaxial driver is like the TC Electronics implementation, where the lack of the horn on the face of the speaker allows for a smaller box to be used and still implement a horn. When your talking about a 610 you already have space for a horn itself, and the phase coherence is already messed up because its a 610.

    And you talked about 2 of the drivers high passed in the 610, with one being a coax? I can think of a much better mid range driver than a 10" cone. Also if you don't put a horn in the coax, it becomes a port tube.
     
  5. will33

    will33

    May 22, 2006
    austin,tx
    I have APT-150's in my PA cabs, man. Nice tweeters, easy on the ears, never harsh. Just looking at a chart, you'd think you'd want to bring them down some to balance but you don't have to. They don't do anything that's offensive to the ear.
     
  6. kringle77

    kringle77 Supporting Member

    Jul 30, 2004
    Massena NY
    Joel, you totally missed it. Read my modded nv610 thread to get it. In a 6x10, you low pass one vertical columb of drivers at 500hz, let the other vertical columb of drivers run full range, one of them having a coaxial driver crossed at 3.5khz. Get it? Anyone have any actual experience with either of the these drivers? Im really baffled why they don't seem to be used. The tc electronics cabs use these drivers but, they are probably 16 ohms instead of the stock 8 ohms.
     
  7. will33

    will33

    May 22, 2006
    austin,tx
    Advantage would be the single point source thing.

    Disadvantage would be...

    A. Expense, but probably a bigger deal...

    B. The polepiece, inside of the voice coil and the first part of the cone and the dustcap become the tweeters waveguide of sorts. With a good excursion woofer for bass, the tweeters path length would be constantly changing back and forth with every stroke. Probably chop up the HF stuff pretty good.

    Maybe they don't integrate that well? Who knows. The angled, CD horn on the 150 is said to fracture the pattern, but it sounds nice to the ear.

    They say whizzer cones don't work that great on long excursion speakers, maybe this is something similair. Not guru enough to say here.

    Now, if you highpassed it and took the excursion out of the equation...hmm.....
     
  8. joelb79

    joelb79

    Mar 22, 2006
    Lansing, Michigan
    I still argue that is one complicated and expensive crossover, and your missing out on 3 10's of frequency where it matters most, which means the 610 is 3db less efficient than it could be around the critical mids. I argue that the 10's as mid drivers (500hz and up) are not optimal and then your still going to have phase alignment issues with things. 500hz is right in the guts of bass guitar tone, and not a place you want to throw a crossover point. I stand by my opinion, I think that is (on paper) a bad idea, but perhaps my ears would say something else.

    Where's this thread? I must have missed that, honestly I have not participated in the amps section in a long time my apologies.
     
  9. will33

    will33

    May 22, 2006
    austin,tx
    You lowpass 1 column, not highpass. It's a one-way filter, not a full blown crossover. You get all 6 drivers worth of lows/lowmids. You lose 3db of upper mids but gain wide dispersion. If you want that 3db of uppermids back, bump an eq knob maybe 1 notch, no more than 2 on most typical eq's. You get 6 drivers playing below 500hz and 3 playing above. Set an active crossover to 500hz and shut off the low side. That content you're left hearing is the content in question. It works. And it's a relatively inexpensive filter. When you get to adding more drivers on top of that it can get complicated. And it will change the system impedance curve, which is an issue for tube amps. But, the vast majority of the power demand and "amp work" is still below 500hz.

    I've wondered about the impedance thing trying to come up with 2 woofer + 1 guitar driver mid cabs friendly towards tube amps. But, came to the conslusion, it's just fine. The vast majority of demand is still on the 4ohm woofer set, and all speakers have rising impedance the further you go up. Whether that conclusion is correct remains to be seen.:D
     
  10. joelb79

    joelb79

    Mar 22, 2006
    Lansing, Michigan
    In the end, all that matters is the :D
     
  11. kringle77

    kringle77 Supporting Member

    Jul 30, 2004
    Massena NY
    Will explained it for me. I can't be any clearer than that. A 6x10 cab using these would be somewhere around 5.3 ohms, varying with frequency of course. The barefaced 69'er is stated to be 4 ohms but, Im betting it is more like 5 or 6 ohms on paper, not taking frequency into account. Will, good point on the moving cone. I hadn't thought of that. I just wanted to hear what it sounds like. Anyway, this driver has fairly flat response up to 3khz whereas most have a nasty peak if they go that high. It would seem like a good driver to use even if you weren't going to go with adding a high frequency driver. It looks like the nv610 drivers sound. Fairly even with a rolloff after 3khz. I'll keep you guys posted.
     
  12. Well, how did the driver work for bass? I've been thinking of using it in a design.
     
  13. kringle77

    kringle77 Supporting Member

    Jul 30, 2004
    Massena NY
    That was over 4 years ago and I don't remember at all. There's been a lot of experiments since then.
     
  14. BadExample

    BadExample

    Jan 21, 2016
    Injiana
    And the last experiment (that I know of) seems to be a great success :D
     

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