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Bi-amping the D215 XLT

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by ROCKBOBMEL_old, May 2, 2001.


  1. Experimenting with bi-amping brought better results than ever.
    I am using an Eden Navigator preamp, a WT1000 power amp, a D215 XLT, and an Acme LowB-2.
    I used to use both cabinets full range. This sounded real good- I could tweak the tone and balance to dial it in. Then I tried biamp stereo mode. Wow! this really cuts. I think because the Acme has the lows rolled off, It works more effeciently. Also, I think there must have been some phase cancellation before ( The Acme is rear ported, and the Eden front ported). I can really dial in everything better-easier. Even the effects are better heard.
    It really benifits to have a balance, variable X-over, and tone controls on the power amp too.
    The D215 XLT really shines doing what it does best- (Pumping out lows that you can hear and feel).
     
  2. how much did you pay for your 2x15xlt? I have a WT-800, and am considering adding either the 1x15xlt, or 2x15xlt. I already have a 4x10xlt (8ohms). what's it like toting around the 2x15?
     
  3. I find the D215XLD much easier to get arouund than my old Ampeg 810 (now gone) Also it is a great sounding cab. Much better IMO to the 115
    The 215XLT wieghs about 100 pounds. Unfortunatley it comes as 4 ohms only, which might give you a problem with your WT-800 using both cabs together.

    MikeyD wrote a good review of this cab.

    Here's the link.

    http://www.talkbass.com/reviews/reviewview.php?ID=1
     
  4. MikeyD

    MikeyD

    Sep 9, 2000
    Hi, Bob - glad you found the sound you were after. I'm thinking that your rig probably can't get quite as loud while bi-amping as it does running full-range.

    Anyway - did you ever check out the drivers to see if their frames are cast or stamped? Just curious.

    Hi, Spike - thanks for posting the link here.

    - Mike
     
  5. Hi Mike,
    Actually, I failed to mention that I backed off the bass to 10:Ockock and the Low EQ to 11:Oclock, Boost the mid to 3:Ockock, and treble & High flat. (Eden Preamp).
    With this EQ I can increase the overall volume and Increase definition.
    What you said about full range was true until I changed the EQ. I had an Ampeg SVT4 PRO that I tried biamping, but I liked it better full range, However, I never tried the EQ that way. The Eden was the same way.
    I'll try and keep you updated. Things can change, Including my mind.
    Regards, Bob
    P.S., Hi Spike-
    Better then the 115 XLT? or just 115?
     
  6. Hi ROCKBOBMEL
    When I bought my D215XLT I checked out a 410XLT and a 115XLT as well in the store.

    To my ears, I prefered the D2115XLT as it seemed to have more punch.
    I might have gone for the for the 410XLT which I thought was also excellent, but I was in the market for 15's as I already had a Hartke 410XL.
    Of course thats just my opinion.

    Cheers,

    Spike.
     
  7. Funny, I traded 2 4.5XL cabs for the Eden. I really liked those cabs, but like you, I was in the market for 15s. I A/Bd the two, and the hartke was a little more punchy, but the 215 was much bigger sounding, maybe even not as defined, but mind you I am using an Acme B-2 for the 10s punch. I'm even thinking of gwtting a few 3" plumbing plugs to close the rear ports. Uh Oh, a new thread Idea.
     
  8. MikeyD

    MikeyD

    Sep 9, 2000
    Hey, Bob, I wouldn't get too concerned about the ports. You had mentioned phase cancellation - I doubt that's happening unless it's a poorly-designed box. The output of the ports is largely in phase with the drivers and, at the low frequencies (i.e., long wavelengths) where they do their thing, the phase shift between front- and rear-ported designs is probably negligible.

    On the subject of bi-amping, my problem with it is that the Eden 215XLT is a full-range cabinet. To relegate it to handling only frequencies below, say, 200 Hz. would be a waste of potential. That said (please refer to my review of the cabinet), the 215 is a bit weak in the upper midrange, so having a complementary cabinet with 10" drivers is the ticket. I'm not familiar with the Acme cabinet you have. Anyway, I've learned here that people have legitimate reasons for wanting to bi-amp, so that's cool - but I still think (for most bass guitar applications) it is kind of a waste of potential.

    - Mike
     
  9. Thanks Mike,
    The Xover is closer to 300hz. I only tried it once so far, so I'll try to keep a closer eye on what's going on. I think the fact that I'm backing off the bass and low controls leaves the speaker to put out more low mids, and still there is plenty of bottom end to rattle your pant legs.
    I also want to add that we are too loud anyway. It is a constant ongoing battle with my drummer (band leader) and futile to try to change the band. His Idea of dynamics is Very loud and Super loud.
    So, as you can see, I'm always struggling to be the right volume and hear myself. Tone is in a different world at this loudness. I'm so happy I got my musicians earplugs.

    Another reason I thought the port plugs would help is, I wanted to see if the cones would recover better in a sealed box. Don't you think they will be punchier in an acoustic baffle? I heard it lowers the efficiency.
    Thanks, Bob
     
  10. MikeyD

    MikeyD

    Sep 9, 2000
    You're welcome. I wasn't familiar with the Acme, but found a review of it on the web. It looks like a 2x10 "hi-fi" cabinet with great bass extension, but not particularly efficient (the normal tradeoff). So I surmise you'd like the Acme to handle basically all the lower and upper midrange and treble, which seems fine, and to let the Eden handle everything below that. This is very sensible, in my view. It will probably not be as loud as running both full-range, but depending on your amp, I could see why it might sound nicer with bi-amping. I also see nothing wrong with experimenting with plugging the ports to raise the resonant frequency of the Acme (and make its drivers respond a little faster) - but I can't predict what it will sound like. If you bi-amp at 300 Hz., I doubt you'll notice much effect, though, because the ports aren't really doing anything above that frequency. If you run full-range, then plugging the ports will probably have a noticeable effect. That's my guess.

    I've found that the Eden 215 cabinet requires just the right amount of bass EQ. It's easy to overdo, because that cabinet has prodigious bass output.

    I have a similar set-up, and here's what I do: I run my Carvin stereo bass amp (R1000) full-range to both the Eden 215 and the Carvin 2x10 (+tweeter). The Eden handles the bottom end and contributes nicely to lower mids and treble. I let the Carvin 2x10 fill in the upper mids and a bit of treble as well. The trick is to keep the lows out of the tens, because it's too much for them - so I inserted a capacitor in the preamp send/return loop of that channel to attenuate lows below maybe 200 Hz. This way, the 2x10 adds a lot of warmth and punchiness without having to see huge (and distortion-generating) cone excursions. The Eden marvelously handles the lowest notes, so this set-up works really well for the music I play (funk, soul, jazz, and some rock). If you are so inclined, you could try something similar with your rig just for the fun of it to see how you like it.
    I have that same situation in my band (unfortunately)! The rig I have now is much, much bigger than the Fender BXR300 (a powerhouse in its own right) that I had before, because this is the first drummer I've played with in many years over whom I couldn't be heard clearly! This new rig has solved that problem. :)
    - Mike