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Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by Curtis M. Wise, Jul 13, 2002.
Anyone have experience with Bi-Tri-Quad amping bass. Any One brand setups?
Um, can I ask why you want to do this?
The more you split the signal up, the more phase problems you're likely to get from the crossovers.
I don't think anything more than 3-band is practicable and worth the effort.
I've bi- and triamped before. For me it's pointless. There are all manner of preamps, crossovers and amps available.
I believe that at one time I read that Entwistle was Quad amping his stage gear. I've listened too and played through a Hartke 3500 with 1 X 18 and 4 X 10 benz genz cabs. The tonal possiblities seemed endless. And I was able to define the bottom end. Maybe it was just the cabs, I don't know, that's why I asked?
Entwistle was also a touring pro... with roadies
I'm pretty much a local player at this point and I move my own gear. Biamping with the above mentioned rig may probably work well. I guess it depends on what sound you're after. I've found happiness running two small full range cabs. I was never as happy tonally with any of my rigs as I am now with my EA cabs.
I have an Ampeg 115 now. It just doesn't have the full range and clean sound that I would like to hear at louder volumes. Especially on the bottom end. I can spend $1k on amplification or work towards a Brubaker/Garz Guitar. I don't gig, will start playing for fun and kicks with my two brothers, one's a drummer the other plays guitar and sax. We're doing it for the fun though, the brother guitarist has leukemia and may not live too long, we don't know yet. So, we're getting the band back together. I am working towards the "dream" sound. I believe in speaker surface, first of all, the more the merrier. Power yes, clean and lots of it! Tone/preamps/effects boxes, well if I spend $2k on a custom bass, I want to hear the bass not the reproduction system. So I'm just trying to get some ideas about that ultimate sound reproduction goal, how to achieve it and how much equipment/dollars will it take?!
I'd check out some good 1x15, 4x10+tweeter combinations, e.g. Eden, Aguilar etc., plus a preamp, P.A. poweramp (e.g. QSC) combination.
Personally I'd recommend Glockenklang or Tech Soundsystems cabs, but they're expensive outside Germany.
Technically, if you run your bass amp into a PA, with monitors, full range speakers and subs, aren't you sort of quad-amping? So I guess if you play with a tri-amp rig and this sort of PA, you're sex-amping
Thought that was Viagra?!! (lol) Anytime you got tweeters and such, you have crossovers?! The Hartke head had sort of a parametric equalizer, so that you can tailor the sound of either side kof the Bi-amp. The head is great, used $500.00. Maybe, buy that and work on the cab situation as I go? Don't like the 18" Huh? I always was under the impression that 18's got down there and moved air. I do like the sound of the 4 x 10's on the frequencies above 250 hz. Very tight and clean. Maybe don't need to have a crossover to get that on the bottom end to? Maybe a good head with 2 cabs of 4 X 10's. On the other hand, many bands run everything through a board and PA. Again, I'm not gigging, just trying to get a great sound for personal edification.
I used to run biamped. Here's what I used:
Ashly BP-41 preamp which had a built in crossover into a Yamaha 2 channel compressor (ch.1 for lows/ch.2 for highs) into a QSC model 1700 power amp. The lows went into a Trace 1x15 box and the highs went into a Trace 4x10 box. Crossed it over @ 150Hz. I liked it. It was a pain to carry but it sounded very good. I now run full range and like it better, but biamping definitely has its good points.
Thanks Ineal for the info, happy upcoming birthday!
I get the feeling that moving all that gear is too much work. I don't know if the set up would be worth it? Maybe money better spent on that custom bass!!
I bi-amp only because I cannot get what I want for bottom unless I use subs. These have squat for highs, bi-amping is mandatory.
For bass use (non distortion) you need response to about 8,000 Hz maximum. There are many 10" drivers that get very close, and they are perfect for bi-amping. JBL E110 are what I use, but Eminence makes several that will also do the job. I'm not entirely sold on the E110 because their sound is heavily colored.
Tri-amping and beyond is pointless with electric bass because two sets of drivers will handle the required frequency range.
Bi-amping adds another amp (or use of stereo channel), a crossover, and a second (set) of cabinets. For me, this means 5 trips to the truck to unload, and 5 trips to pack up and go home. Stairs... Don't do stairs...
I hate hauling all this crap around, but the massive bottom I get does make it worth while.
I have a Gallien Krueger 1001rb head and a 410RBH cabinet.This system allows the option of running full range or bi amped.The bi amp mode is acheived via a Speakon cable which has 4 conductors: 2 go to the horn from a seperate 50 watt amp and the other 2 go to the 4 10" woofers from a 540 watt amp.The crossover is at 5khz.The front panel of the amp has volume for both amps,so adjustments can be made w/o going around to the back of the cabinet.
what I hear when bi amping this rig is that the treble range stays clean no matter how loud the system is played.This may be looked on as an asset by some and undesirable by others.I like bass to be as clean as possible so the bi amp mode suits me but those enamored of roaring Ampeg rigs on the verge of meltdown would sniff "too sterile."
Many people have grown accustomed to the intermodulation distortions produced by the type of passive crossovers found in a lot of bass cabinets and have perhaps subconciously accepted this as a "good" sound because it's so familiar to their ears from all the recordings/concerts they've heard of their favorite players,and I'm not making a value judgement here,just stating a preference.
Thanks for the birthday wishes! It may be more feasible to biamp nowadays, given that you can get a 2 rack space QSC amp that'll do 900W/ch @ 4 ohms and weighs only 22 lbs. So I don't think its too far out of the question now. Good luck in your tonal endeavors!
I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure that Entwistle's "quad amp" system did not use three crossover points; instead, it was stereo biamp: (biamp clean) + (biamp dirty).
If you don't want to use a standard crossover, how about just splitting the signal and filtering it with, say, an Alembic SF-2? I had this rig in mind:
QSC PLX 1602
2 x Aguilar GS112
A biamp rig that I can carry in two or three trips (each part being about 40 lbs,) or just load onto a dolly. Of course, there's no real sub, and that might defeat the purpose of bi-amping. My plan is to run mids or mid-to-highs into one side with the tweeter off, and run the other side fullrange with the tweeter on.
Some good feedback here! It's not making it easier though. I can get the Hartke/Benz-Genz for around a Kilo buck. I want the Garz Guitar before he gets in demand and the prices go up. I hear much talk about 10's now. Seemed in the good ole days, everyone wanted big "woofers" for the bottom. Can you get deep clean bass with 10's. How many would it take? ( 4 X 10 or 8 X 10) How much power too? How about twelve's, which would have the weight but are about as cheap as 10's. I don't plan on moving the set up much. At first anyway, it's entertainment for the neighbors! Thanks for the info!!!!
Check out the Gallien-Krueger 2001RB
It's can be set to biamp mode and is dual-channel to have less impedance problems. It has 4 separate poweramps
Just to throw my worthless opinion into the mix......
I did the biamp thing with my Mesa 2x10 and 1x15 and while it sounded good, I found it sounded better with both cabinets running full range. I like the 2x10 and 1x15 combination because it is still very easy to haul around, has great range and has all the volume I need (and I need alot).
As far as how many 10's you need to get the lowend........I'd say for the full the lowend just about any quality 2x10 would suffice....it's when you want volume that you have to start adding speakers. My 2x10 sounds fantastic on its own at "practice by myself volume" but once I throw in an aggressive drummer and a guitarist with 2 100 watt Marshall 1/2 stacks I start getting buried but with the 1x15 added, no problem. I've played through just a 4x10 before and it worked well for my situation so I would say that if you are leaning towards a 10's only rig....start with a 4x10 (or 2 2x10's).
As far as GK heads go.....I hate their biamp setup. Biamping the speakers and the horn in the same cabinet is a waste of power from the head. I never understood why they just don't use an attenuator on the cabinet. If their heads were setup for biamping multiple cabinets (highs to a 10" cabinet and lows to one of their 15's) I'd own one. I love GK stuff, their "biamp mode" I just think is a waste.
are you saying you biamped this rig? biamping a 3500 is physically impossible. if you liked this combination of head and cabs, why not just go with it then?