Biamping Query

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by P.Niggz, Aug 5, 2009.


  1. P.Niggz

    P.Niggz

    Apr 12, 2009
    Leeds
    Hey Guys,

    I've read through the forums a few times to try and get this whole bi-amping logic through my head but I've had to resort to bugging you all for help again! :p

    Firstly, some of you may recall my last post where I was complaining about not getting the sound I wanted through my current rig which is a Hiwatt 200watt head with a Hiwatt 1x15 and 4x10.

    I'm glad to tell you I've pretty much sorted it now :) Bought a parametric EQ and nudged the mids a little, just awaiting a compressor now and I think i'll be happy!

    But... in a rather weird turn of events I've managed to get hold of a 400watt hiwatt head for ridiculously cheap. I was talking to a friend about my now old tone problem and he thought that it might be possible to bi-amp my 200watt head and 400watt head to solve the problem with an even better sound.

    His idea was as follows: Use the 200watt head for the lows and the highs and use the 400watt head to control the mids. I'm presuming he would think I'd have to buy another cab as I obviously wouldn't send both my lows and highs to the 1x15... maybe buy a smaller speakered cab for the highs (4x8 or even 6x6?)and use the 410 for the 400watt head to control the mids.

    Would this work? or at all help the situation? I'm starting to play gigs with my band now in largish rooms of upto 3000 capacity and we're heading out on tour again at the end of November with some bands from the states (i'm from the UK), so I'd really like to have an immense sound for that :p.

    Any suggestions at all would be appreciated as always :) I love you guys! x

    - Paul
     
  2. generally biamping would split the lows and the mid/highs. It really doesn't make sense to use one for lows and highs and then one for mids.
    It's lows that take the most power, so what you're traditionally want to do with that setup is use the 400W for lows, and the 200W for mids and highs.

    That's just amps, say nothing of cabs - that can be more complex. Suffice to say there is little point to sending all your lows to a single 15 - that would be better served even by the 4x10. Which of course leaves no cab for your mids and highs, unless the 15 happens to excel at that.
     
  3. billfitzmaurice

    billfitzmaurice Commercial User

    Sep 15, 2004
    New Hampshire
    Owner, Bill Fitzmaurice Loudspeaker Design
    Bi-amping is only useful when you have cabs specifically designed and tuned to operate within different bandwidths. Yours aren't. When you do bi-amp the higher power amp runs the lows, as that's where power demands are greatest. You may find some benefit in running the heads in tandem. Then again, you may not.
     
  4. P.Niggz

    P.Niggz

    Apr 12, 2009
    Leeds
    Not 100% sure what you mean by this. Do you mean send the signal from my guitar to both heads and then each to their own seperate cab and run them both at full range? I was thinking about this as I'd be able to EQ the two cabs seperately and have more control over it.
     
  5. The 0x

    The 0x

    Aug 24, 2003
    Timonium, MD
    First of all, :mad: for having such an awesome rig.

    Second, run the DR405 with the lows full on, and everything else cut. Run the DR201 with the mids and treble dimed, and the lows cut. See which cab is better at handling what, but I wouldn't run a DR405 into a single 15 (maybe a pair of 18s). Afterwards, adjust the EQs to taste. That's what I do with my Sunns, although mine aren't nearly as powerful as what you've got.
     
  6. P.Niggz

    P.Niggz

    Apr 12, 2009
    Leeds
    Thanks for the Advice man,

    Any suggestions on a good 2x18 cab I could buy? I figure seeing as though I've got so much gear already I might aswell not stop here. GAS all the way :)
     
  7. billfitzmaurice

    billfitzmaurice Commercial User

    Sep 15, 2004
    New Hampshire
    Owner, Bill Fitzmaurice Loudspeaker Design
    Yes.
     
  8. P.Niggz

    P.Niggz

    Apr 12, 2009
    Leeds
    awesome :) definitely worth a try. Thanks for your advice!

    I've just had a thought... my bands gonna kill me when they see the size of the flight case for all of this :p
     
  9. bongomania

    bongomania Commercial User

    Oct 17, 2005
    PDX, OR
    owner, OVNIFX and OVNILabs
    Ha! Tell them they have a choice: complain about tone, or complain about the size of your rig. :)

    Here's how the biamp thing could work for you (not in a perfect audio-science sense, but in a practical "try it and see if you like it" sense):

    bass --> splitter (Lehle P-split, Radial Bigshot splitter, Boss LS-2)

    splitter output A --> amp head A --> cab A
    splitter output B --> amp head B --> cab B

    amp head A: lower wattage, EQ'd to emphasize the highs. Small cab.
    amp head B: higher wattage, EQ'd to emphasize the lows and mids. Giant cab.

    In a perfect world you'd want to be able to flip the phase of one of the splitter outputs, in case the overlapping midrange from the two rigs causes any cancellation or unwanted resonance.
     
  10. P.Niggz

    P.Niggz

    Apr 12, 2009
    Leeds
    Haha thats exactly what I'll tell them :p. Thanks for the advice man. Just a quick question, when you say Small cab and Giant cab presumably you mean neither my 1x15 or my 4x10 :p haha!
     
  11. rpsands

    rpsands

    Jul 6, 2007
    I'd just sell the 200, keep the 400, and buy some more efficient cabs. I can't imagine those Hiwatt cabs are using bass drivers worth a crap but I could be wrong :)
     
  12. bongomania

    bongomania Commercial User

    Oct 17, 2005
    PDX, OR
    owner, OVNIFX and OVNILabs
    Yeah, ideally you'd want cabs that are designed for that purpose, like billfm said. Your current 4x10 might be good enough for the low/mid half, in medium-smaller venues, or bigger venues where you have good monitor support, and that's of course assuming that specific cab is "good", I've never used it or read much about it so I don't know.

    Perfect world: more efficient cabs, for greater loudness without necessarily having to haul flight cases the size of a house. One cab designed for the highs--for example, a guitar cab! Seriously. The other should just be a good big bass cab like a 2x15, 6x10, 8x10, or a pair of 4x10s or a pair of 2x12's etc.etc. and just make sure it's one that is known for great tone and projection in the mids. Again though, with 400W power, you want the most efficient bass cab(s) you can get, for maximum loudness. For the treble cab, 200W is way more than you'd need, so the main concern is finding a guitar cab that can take 200W peaks without blowing.
     
  13. P.Niggz

    P.Niggz

    Apr 12, 2009
    Leeds
    I can't sell the 200... I take your point about the cabs though, not sure if they're any good or not to be honest they just came as a set. :)

    Right I see, any ideas on what possible guitar cab I could use? I'm not 100% sure how small of a guitar cab you are suggesting for the treble. Any suggestions on guitar/small cabs? I do own a couple of fender 4x12s but I wouldn't consider them to be small :smug:

    Thanks for your advice man, I really appreciate it. :)
     
  14. rpsands

    rpsands

    Jul 6, 2007
    I think you'll do better just running one amp. Biamping requires some expensive components as well (a good crossover is going to set you back at least another hundred bucks) and lots of additional cabling and so on.

    Are you in the US?

    Edit: Of course, using the setup Bongo suggested where each cab "emphasizes" different frequencies is fine...but I think it might be overkill. Probably better to just run them both together if you're going to.

    OK, reread your original post and you're UK. Call up Alex Caber from Barefaced cabs. I would bet you'd be a lot better off with a couple of his Compacts or Vintages. They are ridiculously sensitive, and he can do them up with a vintage looking package that will look cool with the Hiwatt.

    He may also be able to give you some advice on getting the most of your rig since he's a heck of a sharp dude :)
     
  15. bongomania

    bongomania Commercial User

    Oct 17, 2005
    PDX, OR
    owner, OVNIFX and OVNILabs
    ^^^ Good advice! Talk to Alex, he's the man. He's "alexclaber" here on TB, so you can PM him.
     
  16. P.Niggz

    P.Niggz

    Apr 12, 2009
    Leeds
    Thanks for the info dude,

    I'll get in touch with Alex as you suggested, he sounds like he could help :). I actually have an art student doing a custom art job to my entire amp so I'm not that bothered about it looking like the Hiwatt at all :p but nice to know its possible :)
     
  17. Stu_Bass

    Stu_Bass

    Nov 24, 2006
    Pennsyltucky
    I can't imagine the 400 not covering anything you'd ever do. It is LOUD! Plus if you're playing to 3k+ you will have PA support so all you need is stage volume and you have that in spades.
     
  18. Primary

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    Here are some related products that TB members are talking about. Clicking on a product will take you to TB’s partner, Primary, where you can find links to TB discussions about these products.

     
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