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Bill Bruford / Alan White

Sonicfrog

Sonicfrog

Jan 4, 2008
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Fresno, CA
sonicfrog.net
#1
OK, this is a topic that has puzzled me for a long long time, and it was brought up on this thread.

Of the two drummers who have played with YES, Bruford always get so much love, yet, White, who can obviously play the things Bruford played with the group, is always looked as the "inferior" of the two drummers, as if the guy is not very talented. Yes, I know Bru has played in a wide variety of progressive groups, including King Crimson (I'm a huge Pat Mastelotto fan myself), but does that make him SOOOO much better? Or is it that White's work with YES is more on the commercial side? Yet White has serious chops, and his meter is flawless. In that regard, I put him in the same group of elite meter drummers as Vinnie Caliuta and Jeff Porcaro.

This whole thing reminds me of the Phil Collins Paradox - he a great drummer that also sucks. I've run into so many musicians who flat out state that "Phil Collins Sucks!!!". Most of the time, these musicians are only familiar with the PC of the 80's, of the "We Can't Dance" type of music. But there is the other Phil Collins they are not even aware of, the player who laid down some monster tracks on the Peter Gabriel led Genesis, on a lot of the Peter Gabriel solo stuff, and on the post PG Genesis albums, right up to Duke. They just are not aware that he could do that type of playing.

So, in closing, just because White did not go in the same direction as Bruford, and doesn't have the huge library of work, does that mean he sucks when compared to him or that he's a lesser drummer?
 
#2
You nailed it - perception is everything. It doesn't matter that Alan White can play all of the Bruford-era stuff, AND still play his era as well. It doesn't matter that Phil Collins can play absolutely killer grooves with Brand X and Genesis. Now, if you asked me who was a better drummer, I'd still have to go with Bruford, simply because if you had to play drum beats without cymbals (Discipline) - dude, you're awesome :D!

It's kind of the same thing going on with the Van Halen "reunion" thread - I'm sorry, but it isn't a real reunion if you have an original band member (who is alive that is) not participating. I think it's cool that DLR is back, but it's as much original VH as it was with Hagar or Cherone.

My $.02 as always.
 
#4
Yeah, but think of it another way - there are a lot of guys who can play the bass lines that Chris Squire created - but they're not Chris Squire. To be able to perform the lines is a whole other beast than the creativity to develop them in the first place.

Everybody, including the two of them, have always said that Bruford is first and foremost a jazz drummer and White was always a rock drummer. Bruford's jazz drumming wasn't just good - the thing was that, in the context of the rest of the band, it was part of making early Yes sound like nothing else that was out there. White is a great drummer but the drum parts he created (Relayer, Going for the One, etc. down to the present) don't have that same uniqueness to them.

I would never say White "sucks." I think he's amazing. I'm not sure I would say Bruford is a "better" drummer than White - but he gave things a creative twist that the albums didn't have after he left.
 
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#5
If you ask me , I much prefer Bruford not because of technical ability but because the guy has a very distinct style and sound.

Likewise , I will prefer a Mick Karn over any modern sewing machine ( million notes per minutes ) because of that very personal sound/style.
 
#6
They are both awesome, and I'm a big fan of P@'s too.

Bruford just seems to be able to get all of his limbs to work independently from each other. I swear the guy can play 6/8 with his right foot, and 12/3 with his left hand and somehow keep it all from falling apart.
 
#7
I had the pleasure of seeing Yes in concert August 28, 2011 and both Bruford and White played drums. Bruford was not slated to perform and what a great surprise that was. The concert was with the Toronto Symphony Orchestra and the entire show was early Yes songs and none of the 80s and beyond material. Being a fan of both drummers as well a big fan of the entire band the lineup included Steve Howe, Chris Squire, Jon Anderson, and Tom Brislin on keyboards. Bruford and White were both incredible and I have commented on that many times since.
 
#8
Kitsapbass said:
You nailed it - perception is everything. It doesn't matter that Alan White can play all of the Bruford-era stuff, AND still play his era as well. It doesn't matter that Phil Collins can play absolutely killer grooves with Brand X and Genesis.
Click to expand...

+1 - Regarding Phil Collins. If your 1st memory of Phil is him singing the theme from Tarzan - I could understand how someone wouldn't be too impressed. For me, I bought 'And Then there Were Three' soon after it was released and worked my way backwards through the Genesis catalog.. Jumped into Brand X and discovered Percy Jones etc..ect.. (That statement shows my age I am sure). Phil is a great drummer who was part of a lot of music I liked..

Personally, I preferred Bill Brufords performances of most of his side of the Yes catalog. That said, Alan White was the drummer on 'Going for the One' and one of most favorite songs 'Awaken' so I don't dislike Alan in any way...

I did see ABW&H and really wondered what that would have been like with Chris Squire.....
 
#9
GtenderG said:
+1 - Regarding Phil Collins. If your 1st memory of Phil is him singing the theme from Tarzan - I could understand how someone wouldn't be too impressed. For me, I bought 'And Then there Were Three' soon after it was released and worked my way backwards through the Genesis catalog.. Jumped into Brand X and discovered Percy Jones etc..ect.. (That statement shows my age I am sure). Phil is a great drummer who was part of a lot of music I liked..

Personally, I preferred Bill Brufords performances of most of his side of the Yes catalog. That said, Alan White was the drummer on 'Going for the One' and one of most favorite songs 'Awaken' so I don't dislike Alan in any way...

I did see ABW&H and really wondered what that would have been like with Chris Squire.....
Click to expand...

I wish I could've gone to see ABWH - especially by that time, Jeff Berlin was playing with them instead of Tony Levin.

and a huge huge +1 on the Collins/Tarzan thing...I mean, why Phil? WHY? After making good music for a lot of his career, he did...that.
 
#10
One "better" than the other?? No. Bruford and White are just different.

IMO, I'll take Alan's drumming over Bruford for "best fit" in Yes music.

I have been a Yes fan since 1971. I have seen Yes numerous times in concert, and I met Yes in 2001 and had the privilege of chatted with them individually for a while. I was also in a Yes tribute band for a few years.

I have alot of respect for Bill's technical ability, but I think Alan is a much better fit for Yes. I also have alot of respect for Alan's technical ability. Just listen to him play Sound Chaser or The Gates. Anyone who can play that is at the top of their game, IMO.

I will also add that Alan is one heck of a nice guy. When I talked with him, it was as if I was chatting with my next door neighbor. He's just a nice normal down-to-earth guy, and one of the best drummers on this planet.
 
#11
Both incredible drummers. But if I had to choose only one for a gig I'd go with Alan White. Bruford does indeed have amazing skills and that early Yes material was surely enhanced by his contributions. But I really love the tone and the feel that Alan White brought to the group. He has always reminded me a bit of John Bonham, insofar as having a heavier, deeper groove, using the kick drum in a sparser yet more articulate way. I think his playing style leaves more room for the other bandmembers. Alan White is less of a busybody compared to Bruford, but in no way less musically interesting.

I love Bruford's work with King Crimson - he and T Levin play brilliantly together.
 
#14
I'm with SactoBass on this one.

I don't have quite the "Yes cred" that he has but I've been listening since 1984 and picked up the bass because of Chris Squire. I've seen them dozens of times with both Bill and Alan as well as seeing Bill with King Crimson.

The question of who's a "better" drummer is one for endless debate with no real resolution. However, the best drummer for Yes IMO is Alan. While handling all of Bill's parts, he brought a heaviness and rock feel to the music that was previously lacking. To me, songs like Starship Trooper are transformed with Alan behind the drums.

Also, as mentioned above, Alan seems to be a genuinely nice guy who loves the music and wants to be there. In every interview I've read or seen with Bill in the context of Yes music, he always comes off as having something better to do. That chemistry or lack thereof has to influence the music.
 
#15
Caveat: I am not that schooled on Alan White's daze with Yes...
That said, I prefer Bruford...more polyrhythmic. More like Colaiuta than White in that regard. I mean, "Five Per Cent for Nothing"...how sick is that?!

I do recall Yes not sounding "right" after Bruford left (or was it just the sound of Bruford's snare?).
;)
Again, my experience with Yes at that time (a 14-16 year old) were The Yes Album, Fragile, & Close To The Edge.

In any event, White is certainly a very capable player/musician in his own right.
 
#20
Bruford was in Yes before White, and played on their most famous, successful recordings...it stands to reason that ANYONE who came after him could seem 'lesser than.'

I saw Yes a hundred years ago and AW was the drummer and he was rad...great rock drummer. Bruford is just so unique, I personally wouldn't want to replace him in a gig...
 

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