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Black tunning keys on a Geddy Lee ?

Discussion in 'Hardware, Setup & Repair [BG]' started by lo lio, Jan 17, 2005.


  1. lo lio

    lo lio

    Apr 10, 2003
    FRANCE 78930
    Hello i would like to change the machine heads of the Geddy Lee for some Shaller black ones. The originals are "vintage style" (dixit Fender). If someone knows which ones can do the job ? Thanks
     
  2. The Schaller BMFL are the current ones offered for Fender replacements. Gotoh offers some others that, IMO, are of a higher quality. In fact I have some on my fretted Jazz and tey are superior to Schaller in every way. However, they are expensive and hard to find.

    Look at Allparts and Warmoth for pics of these.

    www.allparts.com
    www.warmoth.com
     
  3. bkuipers

    bkuipers

    Nov 30, 2003
    Here's mine with black tuners from allparts.com...
     
  4. lo lio

    lo lio

    Apr 10, 2003
    FRANCE 78930
    Hello, i take a look at www.warmoth.com and i find a diagram http://www.warmoth.com/hardware/tuners/pdf/shaller_bml.pdf for the Schaller BMFL. The holes for the screws are not at the same place on my head. For example when it's 18 mm i've got 25 mm and when it's 21 i've got 33 mm. In fact i would like to have something right (you see :) ). If you've got some informations to help me...
     
  5. jpo259

    jpo259

    Feb 2, 2005
    Corona, CA
    I know this is not a Geddy Lee Jazz, but, being that both are made in Japan, this info may help:
    I just replaced the keys on my Aerodyne Jazz. The keys on it where not like any stock Fender keys I'ver seen as far as post diameter and base plate screw hole pattern. The base plate's were much smaller than average Fender. I ordered a set of black keys from Allparts. Gotohs, to be exact. The post on them was like 11/16" dia. The existing tuner dia. was 7/16". the Gothos' were too big for the headstock holes on my Fender. AND..........the plate of each key was so big that they would be touching each other after installation, and definatley would not match the existing screw holes.

    In the end, I put some Hipshot Ultralight tuners in there becuase of the post diameter and headstock hole requirements. You can DEFINATLEY see the old screw holes on the back of the headstock, but, who cares???!!! And, installing them was easy. Drilling new holes for screws is not such a big deal. Anyway, here are some pics of the Gotoh tuner, the stock Fender tuner that was on the Aerodyne, and the Aerodyne with the Hipshots on it:


    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    EDIT: Got a brand-new set of BLACK GOTOH TUNERS for sale!! $50.00 and I'll pay shipping!!!!
     
  6. jpo259

    jpo259

    Feb 2, 2005
    Corona, CA
    Here's some more pice of this bass, before and after the Hipshot installation:

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  7. jpo259

    jpo259

    Feb 2, 2005
    Corona, CA
    And LASTLY..........here are a few thing I learned while replacing my tuning keys.

    The headstock hole is of prime importance, UNLESS you are willing to drill a bigger one. The Aerodyne Jazz has a 9/16" (14.5mm) headstock hole. The Gotohs' require and 11/16" (17.5mm) headstock hole. I wasn't willing to open up the holes on my headstock, so, I went with the Hipshots. They require a 9/16" hole.

    Post diameter makes a difference. The post dia. for each are as follows:

    Gotoh keys-17/32" (14mm) That is 1/32" larger than 1/2"

    Stock Aero-15/32" (12mm) That is 1/32" LESS than 1/2"

    Hipshot -11/32" (10mm) That is more than 1/8" less than 1/2 "

    Here's the difference that post diameter made to me. I went from 15/32" (12mm) to 11/32" (10mm). What this did was put pull on all the strings to the side where none had been before. It was so bad that the E and A strings kept popping out of the nut, wearing it away to the point of unplayability. I had to make a new nut, which I did. I made it 1/16" wider and 1/16" taller than the old nut, I made it out of BLACK water buffalo horn, and I made the string notches deep enough so that they will NEVER pop out again. And I am VERY HAPPY with the results.

    Anyway, back to tuning keys. Seems to me, the Japan Fenders have their own kind of key. Not exactly like stock Fender keys. The keys on the Aerodyne were a little smaller in every dimension than stock Fender (Gotoh). And that meant that no aftermarket key would match up with the existing screw holes. The gothoh's back plate is so much bigger than the Aerodyne plate that they would have been touching each other across the headstock back. I have seen this on Fenders before. It wasn't too much of a problem for me. Also, the gotohs' seemed to have a longer key stem. The stem that attaches to the leaf itself. They seemed to 'stick out' farther from the headboard than the stock or Hipshot. In reality, they are all the same length ( I measured for the string POST center to the outside edge of the tuning leaf). The Gotohs have a slightly smaller leaf design and that is what made it look 'longer'. THAT (the tuning key length), is important, too. You wouldn't want a key that sticks out a mile from your headboard. So, these are the the things I learned in DIY school!!!! FYI-The Gotohs are a FINE replacement for modern Fenders. IF...your Fender has 11/16" (17.5mm) headstock holes!!!!
     
  8. Stu L.

    Stu L. Supporting Member

    Nov 27, 2001
    Corsicana, Texas
    I went through the same thing with my Harris P. I finally ended up with a Hipshot BT-2 and it fit perfectly. And, it has better tuning stability :smug:
     
  9. jpo259

    jpo259

    Feb 2, 2005
    Corona, CA

    I was going to go with the BT-2 myself!!! Went with the Ultralights instead!! :)
     
  10. Stu L.

    Stu L. Supporting Member

    Nov 27, 2001
    Corsicana, Texas
    I usually don't say this about another man's bass, but that is damn sexy :D

    OT, isn't the AJ known for a small controll area? Where did you put the batteries for your EMG's? 9 or 18 volt?
     
  11. jpo259

    jpo259

    Feb 2, 2005
    Corona, CA

    Small control area indeed!! I put an EMG BTC Control System in it at first. That had a vol., Blend, and stacked Bass/Treb. control. VERY tight with a 9V!! I had to router out a tiny bit of wood inside the control cavity to fit the boards the blend pot and stack pot had. I also very carefully routered (with dremel tool) out a tiny bit of the edge of the control cavity to fit the 9V battery. Since then, I have put back in the original Jazz control set that came with the EMG pickups. Much smaller pots. Typical Vol., Vol., Tone. Oh, I had to cut out a spot on the control cavity cover, too!! So, if you look at the back of my bass, you can see the 9V!! Works, though!. I am going to make a new control cavity cover and cover up my mess eventually :D Since putting in the EMGs', a Gotoh bridge, and a new nut, this bass is a pleasure to play and sounds GREAT!!!
     
  12. jpo259

    jpo259

    Feb 2, 2005
    Corona, CA
    Here's a couple of pic's of my Black Beauty: One with the old nut and D'Addario strings, ther other with the new nut and DR Black Beauties.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  13. lo lio

    lo lio

    Apr 10, 2003
    FRANCE 78930
    Thanks jpo259,
    right, you've got a "belle" bass
    So the first thing i'm gonna do is to see the diameter of the holes in the head.
    The Gl has a big head with big "vintage style" keys.
    Sorry but i don't really understand what you mean.
     
  14. jpo259

    jpo259

    Feb 2, 2005
    Corona, CA

    The POST is what you wrap the strings around. That is the part of the tuners that sticks up out of the headstock hole. In replacing tuners, you may want to try and find a replacement that has a match for this measurement also. Best to match HEADSTOCK HOLE DIAMETER and POST DIAMETER.