1. Please take 30 seconds to register your free account to remove most ads, post topics, make friends, earn reward points at our store, and more!  
    TalkBass.com has been uniting the low end since 1998.  Join us! :)

Blackout Europe, The European open internet is under imminent threat

Discussion in 'Off Topic [BG]' started by zwischenzug, Apr 20, 2009.

  1. The internet as we know it is at risk because of proposed new EU rules going through end of April. Under the proposed new rules, broadband providers will be legally able to limit the number of websites you can look at, and to tell you whether or not you are allowed to use particular services. It will be dressed up as ‘new consumer options' which people can choose from. People will be offered TV-like packages - with a limited number of options for you to access.

    It means that the Internet will be packaged up and your ability to access and to put up content could be severely restricted. It will create boxes of Internet accessibility, which don't fit with the way we use it today. This is because internet is now permitting exchanges between persons which cannot be controlled or "facilitated" by any middlemen (the state or a corporation) and this possibility improves the citizen's life but force the industry to lose power and control. that's why they are pushing governments to act those changes.

  2. Toasted


    May 26, 2003
    Leeds, UK
    It's worrying indeed. Also now the legal precident for your ISP to log website visits and sumbit them under freedom of informaiton requests. The world is changing.
  3. that's happening all over. there are many pro net neutrality websites, some of them more effective than others.

    with a bit of equipment and a ten digit code, you can feed from a satellite directly for internet access [like the dalai lama has been doing]. but that's far from ideal given the wired and/or wireless access most users have now. although the pricing system is also far from ideal, and the amount of ISPs is far too low for things to work out well in the long-term given the systems into which the internet was born.

    organize and resist these attacks on informational freedom. because that's what it's really about, restricting access to information itself. i've been using the internet for years to gain knowledge, far moreso than i've ever gotten in a 'public' school. [that's the euphemism, public].
  4. same old ****, if you ask me. people gained something, so it must be repressed. that's a universal.
  5. Stigs


    Sep 29, 2007
    Richmond, Virginia
    I'm somewhat skeptic when it comes to the whole net neutrality fiasco, because even if ISPs are legally able to limit the websites you visit/etc., I still think at least one company will offer a completely untouched full internet package.

    If most ISPs try to limit websites and one company doesn't, the ISP offering free internet use is going to have be flooded with new customers, forcing the limiting ISPs to either remove their restrictions or make less money, and I certainly don't think they want to make less money.
  6. jkritchey


    Jul 23, 2002
    Northern Va.
    While you may be right, lots of people do not have a full range of ISP's to choose from. Many folks are lucky to have 1.
  7. Papazita


    Jun 27, 2008
    The unsuccessful companies will band together and pressure lawmakers to create and enforce new restrictions on the successful company, thus making things "more fair" for the unsuccessful, and giving them the ability to compete on their own terms, rather than actually be competitive and offer a quality product and/or service.

    Mediocrity. It's the new standard.
  8. Stigs


    Sep 29, 2007
    Richmond, Virginia
    That's true, I have a few options where I live and didn't consider people who only have one choice.

    Maybe it would add an incentive to non-limiting ISPs to expand their service if they can get easy business.
  9. jazzy grille

    jazzy grille - Arrogant Bastard Supporting Member

    Aug 15, 2006
    Sarasota, Florida

    Big brother is watching you look at porn and that neat coach bag on Amazon at the same time.
  10. Seriously wish GB had never joined the EU, has been nothing but take take take :(
  11. Bocete

    Bocete My E string is 36 1/4" long

    Sep 30, 2006
    Serbia doesn't have it's own internet access AFAIK, as our ISPs are connected with Germany exclusively, from where we connect to the world. Our ISPs are legally obliged to log our connections for Germany's sake, and so is written on contracts we make with ISPs. My friend has been contacted by a company whose software has he downloaded via p2p by those means. However, it's still ridiculously hard to track what's going on in a small country, yet alone the EU. Simply too much too abstract data to datamine efficiently.

    You want to see who's downloading your program via torrent? Seed the torrent yourself, log the IPs leeching, and ask ISPs who was on that IP at that time... Yet, I know of a single case where it's been done. Our ISPs do log these things.

    Even if ISPs tried to block access to certain domains you didn't pay for, tunnelling data might not be that hard. People will figure it out eventually, I'm optimistic about that.

    Also, what about sites that want to stay open? Public television vs. pay-for-view. ISPs cannot have a list of all the sites that exist, categorised into packages, it's not possible. They could charge for accessing certain sites, but then they might get sued by those sites, either to close the ban or to share the profit. I mean, people who pay for online pron do NOT want to pay the ISPs as well, and neither do the people hosting pron.

    Or, the ISPS could close protocols instead of IPs. In that case, tunnelling is the way to go, and would solve the problem.

    To me, this topics raises only questions. I'm sure that, in the end, it will stay open. The world has changed, and laws will undeniably change to relfect that - sooner or later. I hope, at least.
  12. great point, internet technology doesn't take rocket appliances. and a lot of programmers really believe in internet freedom and have the experience to pull something off. hell, koreans used text swarms on cell phones.

    to hope for undeniable change of law means less than nothing unless you work to make the change. that's a universal and it's proven itself over and over again. and will continue to.
  13. Bocete

    Bocete My E string is 36 1/4" long

    Sep 30, 2006
    Still, no fighting the power without hope :p

    Well, if anything can be done about this, I'll be all over it. Just, well, the power would rather control than listen to the people, IMO and IME in Serbia. And this is about the power expanding it's jurisdiction. It can hardly be stopped in a reasonable way. Protest by not using internet is not an option nowadays, unlike protesting DRM and what not..

    Have there been cases where governments stopped jurisdicting something without a revolt? If there were, it would be smart to see what made them change their mind, and do it in this case. I can't remember of anything, though. There's profanity, but it's still largely regulated.. There's pornography, ok. Can't thing of anything else. What has made those legal?

    If this control thing does happen, I guess we'll see a lot of online terrorism. There is a slight chance that the attack would be strong and frequent enought that the ISPs will not be able to fight back, and would have to retreat; but that wouldn't be good in the long run.
  14. MadMan118


    Jan 10, 2008
    Vallejo, CA
    This is exactly how all facist regimes start. It would sad to see Europe go back to that side again.
  15. Tsal


    Jan 28, 2000
    Finland, EU
    Crap. Is this thing for real?
  16. Lame.

    I guess it's like everything else....:meh: remember when you used to have illegal cable?
  17. kydnav


    Jun 24, 2006
    I haven't heard of anything like that over here..
  18. XtreO


    Jan 2, 2008
    Does this put my intarwebs pr0n at jeopardy? In which case I'mcompletely opposed to the EU from now on. And if ever this stupid law is introduced in Norway, I'll start my own internetprovider with no restrictions at all.
  19. fdeck

    fdeck Supporting Member Commercial User

    Mar 20, 2004
    Madison WI
    HPF Technology LLC
    Did anybody check this one out on Snopes?
  20. Effort and talent in moderation.


Share This Page