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Blaow, how d'ya like me now

Discussion in 'Off Topic [BG]' started by Howard K, Jan 6, 2003.


  1. Howard K

    Howard K

    Feb 14, 2002
    UK
    From news.bbc.co.uk:

    Mr Blunkett's comments on rap music would appear to echo earlier remarks by Labour colleague Kim Howells.

    The outspoken culture minister said: "For years I have been very worried about these hateful lyrics that these boasting macho idiot rappers come out with.

    "It is a big cultural problem. Lyrics don't kill people but they don't half enhance the fare we get from videos and films. It has created a culture where killing is almost a fashion accessory."

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/2632343.stm

    Interetsing stuff I think.. and a good point in all fairness.
    Is it really acceptable to sing/rap create music, which is essentially a form of entertainment, about murdering people?

    ...or is the music culture nothing to do with it and the problem is much deeper routed?

    Personally, I think it's like in Fight Club "we're relaising that we're not gonna be rock stars or movie stars and we're very very pissed off" ... i say that tongue in cheek, but there's probably a lot of truth to it.
     
  2. thrash_jazz

    thrash_jazz

    Jan 11, 2002
    Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
    Artist: JAF Basses, Circle K Strings
    I read about this, too, and it seemed to me to be an irresponsible statement.

    Mr. Howells referred to one group - whose name escapes me - many of whom had been arrested on gun-related charges.

    It seems to me that this behaviour is far more damaging than lyrical content. Just as with TV/movies/videogames/etc., kids should know that music and lyrics are not to be mimicked. However, the behaviour of a popular band is probably going to have more influence than their records are IMHO.

    So... if I knew my favourite bands were going around committing crimes, would I have done that too? Probably not, but there would have been a HUGE difference between, say, "Damage Inc." and Hetfield and Co. robbing a bank, in terms of my outlook.
     
  3. Howard K

    Howard K

    Feb 14, 2002
    UK
    At a guess the band your referring to was 'So Solid Crew' who ironically were 'so solid' that a fair proportion of them are in jail for acts of violence and gun crimes, several have been in the papers for dealing drugs, beating women and all that sort of 'solid' stuff. They were banned from playing in the UK because of the numerous stabbings that occured at their gigs.

    The thing was the whole attitude of the band, the fans and - dare I say - the underground dance (in this case garage) scene is very much an arrogant "I the bess show me nuff respec less kill you guy" type thing. So you get 5000 arrogant nutcases together and bobs yer uncle, people hurt each other.

    I've never been part of the UK garage scene, but I was very much into drum&bass jungle from about '94 through '96/97 and the attitude in some clubs was the same. Some very nasty people doing very nasty things.

    Now granted these people would be this way regardless of music - I'd go as far as to say that they probably don't even really listen to the music and are there for 'the scene'... but at the same time music that in some wasy promotes this isn't really on... IMO of course.
     
  4. thrash_jazz

    thrash_jazz

    Jan 11, 2002
    Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
    Artist: JAF Basses, Circle K Strings
    I think this is the main point - these people would be committing crimes regardless of the music. Musicians are usually just convenient targets of powerful people who don't like their music IMO.

    Although bands with records of the criminal variety are probably even easier targets...
     
  5. Gabu

    Gabu

    Jan 2, 2001
    Lake Elsinore, CA
    Ignoring the genre, because this is true of any genre of music, one item here that I find very interesting is the simple question:

    Is it irresponsible to write songs that promote violence?

    I don't know the answer. Many times lyrics could be called an exploration of feelings, ideas, occurances... but many times they are inciting the feelings, ideas, occurances... so where does one the exploration stop and the encitement begin?
     
  6. thrash_jazz

    thrash_jazz

    Jan 11, 2002
    Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
    Artist: JAF Basses, Circle K Strings
    Once again, I think you can draw parallels between movies, video games etc.

    I don't think any movie etc. was made for the purpose of inciting violence - can the same be said about music? I don't know. People have said the same things about Insane Clown Posse and Eminem, for instance - but I don't think that inciting violence was their intention in either case. ICP were pretty much angry comic relief, and Eminem was just venting his own frustrations IMHO.
     
  7. Gabu

    Gabu

    Jan 2, 2001
    Lake Elsinore, CA
    I agree. I like to sing angry music, because it allows me to vent. But I don't know for sure that some 12 year old boy isn't going to listen to what I write and be inspired to kill his mom or something.
     
  8. jazzbo

    jazzbo

    Aug 25, 2000
    San Francisco, CA
    Supply and demand guys.

    We don't buy it, they don't rap it.
     
  9. If you outlaw lyrics, it will just give people and incentive to cry "foul play", then it will give the people rapping an excuse to call themselves artists.

    Angry music is good, but you have to make sure everyone's on the same wave length with it. I've been in many moshpits that are cooperative, friendly and fun. Then I've been in ones where some idiot thinks he/she is supposed to kick and push people down.
     
  10. Howard K

    Howard K

    Feb 14, 2002
    UK
    No I dont either...

    It's one huge grey area I guess. It comes down to the fact that everyone reacts in different ways, some will listen to Eminem and be amused by his lyrics while others will take it as the gospel of cool and go round beating **** out of each other ...and I definitley agree that Eminem can't be blamed for that! Although, he should really think about it - he is now in a position of power.

    I'm positive it is a crime to incite violent acts in certain circumstances? If Eminem were to be sued for something along those lines, I'd say the record company is more to blame as they are responsable for actually publishing the music world-wide.
     
  11. Bruce Lindfield

    Bruce Lindfield Unprofessional TalkBass Contributor Gold Supporting Member

    I think this is a very simplistic or naive view and surprises me. :( The problem we have in the UK is that a lot of kids who have nothing going for them in terms of getting a job or being "somebody" are presented with role models by popular culture - like Rap/Garage music, video games etc.

    Now they may not be able to create music or do anything worthwhile, but they can pick up on the fact, that what gets "respect" is if you wave a gun about - and they can do that!!

    I think that anybody who gets to be a role model like "So Solid Crew" has a responsibility - disenfranchised kids are looking at them and to simply say - "people don't have to buy it" is just not good enough!
     
  12. Howard K

    Howard K

    Feb 14, 2002
    UK
    The musics response in the form of Radio1 Garage DJ.. some interesting and valid points...

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/music/2631401.stm

    Rap is an art form. If you don't appreciate it, that's fine, but please don't state your opinions as though they are facts. Just a little IMO goes a long way :)
     
  13. Howard K

    Howard K

    Feb 14, 2002
    UK
    I agree with this too. They do have a responsability and lyrics are far too often about commiting violent crimes... and it does matter.