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Blew my 2x10 need advice

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by theshadow2001, Jan 16, 2006.


  1. theshadow2001

    theshadow2001

    Jun 17, 2004
    Ireland
    So I blew my peavey 2x10 and it's all gone farty on me. So according to our drummer/sound engineer/ knows what he's talking about. The glue around the cone is gone. The bit holding the roundy bit in the centre. So anyways I was pushing it hard it was only 160 watts. This baby had been clipped for a year or two previously from a 160 watt head and didn't show much wear or tear. I think the speaker protection circuit on my peavey max had helped a good bit. Although the farts were coming through when you listened really closely a good while ago.

    Anyways more recently I was using it inconjucntion with my mpulse because right now im a bit under powered. I slaved out from the mpulse into the peavey head and into the cab.

    I made sure now that im a little wiser that the peavey wasn't clipping. Thing is I was pumping about 6dB of 30Hz into it because I like a little something to come out of the subs in our rig when we play. 200hz was boosted a bit as well I was using it almost as a volume knob more so than tone. So my question is can 10" speakers handle this kind of low range power going into it. I'm going to go with a mesa powerhouse 4x10 in a few months and I don't want to end up doing the same thing as I did the peavey. Our drummer reckons I was a fool to put that much 30hz into it or to even go that low a freq at all with the boosts. Was he right? Inspite of being bass cabinets is there such a thing as going to low?

    Or was it the fact that it was fairly well mistreated for a solid year and the fact that it was operating at those subs(no clipping from the amp just the 6dBs of 30hz) was enough to finish something that was already going down hill
     
  2. billfitzmaurice

    billfitzmaurice Commercial User

    Sep 15, 2004
    New Hampshire
    Owner, Bill Fitzmaurice Loudspeaker Design
    I hope your resident engineer doesn't refer to dust covers as 'roundy things'. They can be reattached with super glue, the gel type, sprizted with curing accelerator. In any event tens won't stand for much at 30Hz. If that's your thing consider twelves at least.
     
  3. theshadow2001

    theshadow2001

    Jun 17, 2004
    Ireland
    :p no, he knows what they're called!

    Apparently this is a big precision job re glueing dust covers. It has to be done with upmost percision or so he says.

    Hmmm I'm thinking bi-amping might be called for here. I will be getting the 4x10 I do like 4x10's......I just like thirty hertz as well. :rollno: A mesa's 15 should have no problems with frequencies like that right? What would be a sub frequency tens can handle if any 60-80hz? or is even that pushing it?
     
  4. Mcrelly

    Mcrelly

    Jun 16, 2003
    Minnesota, USA
    problem one: using only a 210.
    problem two: using only a 160w amp.
    problem three: thinking that clipping for a year or two is o.k.

    sorry, I'm not picking on you, but 160w DOES become dangerous when it becomes "not enough volume" for your situation and you don't back off the volume.

    future reference: if your new cab is 400w, have AT LEAST a 400w into ___ ohms amp OR DOUBLE if you can. if you find yourself "pushing it hard" again get another LARGE cab like a 410 or 115.

    you were asking too much performance/volume/bass from your amp and cab.
     
  5. Turn the volume knob down, and if you want distortion, buy a pedal. Avoid clipping the power amp at all costs, it gets expensive.
    If you like fat low end, use big speakers...18" are slow, but _everybody_ will hear you, even with "only" 160W, if you play your bass right. It's about controlling your hands, Grasshopper. :cool:
     
  6. theshadow2001

    theshadow2001

    Jun 17, 2004
    Ireland
    Sorry I might not of made myself clear.

    When the peavey was my only amp I used to have to crank it to be heard. Which I new was bad but what could I do?

    However I was up until it blew I was running 460 watts which would cover me. 300 watts from my mpulse into a 15" speaker @ 8ohms and 160 watts unclipped running from my peavey. I would take the slave out from the mesa and run it into the peavey's effect return inorder to by pass its pre-amp and tone controls.

    Clipping the peavey was bad but there was nothing I could do. I wanted to get a new amp because I hated that peavey and I couldnt get another cab because the 2x10 was 4 ohms and the cost of buying 2 8ohm cabs would mean I couldnt get a new amp. To be honest I'm not in the least bit upset I just want to make sure I don't kill any new cabinets I get with sub (or my current 15)

    So just need to know if 15's can handle that low a freqeuncy and what kind of sub if any can tens take without doing damage (I know every cab is different but Im talking rule of thumb here) This could be avoided if manufacturers posted specs for their cabs but that seems to be bad business for some reason.

    I will eventually end up with a 4x10 and 1x15 to run with the mesa which should be loads. I like the high wattage rating on the mesa cabs plus they seem to be made for the m pulse. I understand the idea of running twice the wattage of cabs and the idea in itself is works fine when you have twice the wattage you need. however if your running your amp pretty hot I would rather see a highly rated cab see that signal.
     
  7. Jimmy-X

    Jimmy-X

    Jan 1, 2006
    Whoa nelly! I'm normally a guitar amp kinda guy but have recently been plunged into the land of bass.

    With guitar I 'd say you need more "spare" watts from the cab and less from the amp inorder to not distroy the cab.

    Do you mean If you have a 400watt cab you would say its better to have 800watts going into it?:confused:
     
  8. Petebass

    Petebass

    Dec 22, 2002
    QLD Australia
    In a word - No! And the louder you play, the worse it gets. Some 12's and 15 will struggle with a 30Hz boost.

    Have you tried leaving 30Hz flat and boosting the octave frequencies instead (60Hz and 120Hz). Both are low enough sound like additional bottoms, and the stress on you speakers will be less. And I'd still consider more speakers, preferably larger diameter cones in conjunction with the 10's.
     
  9. Headroom. Clipping hurts speakers - using a head that is rated less than the cab means your head is being asked to put out more juice than it can - this causes it to clip, and your speakers dont like that. If your head has a higher rating than your cab, you can comfortably give the cab as much clean power as it can take without the head clipping. Obviously its not then necessary to run your head with the volume at 11. As long as you are sensible with the volume and turn down if you hear distortion/farting, you're laughing.
     
  10. Turock

    Turock Supporting Member

    Apr 30, 2000
    Melnibone
    Smoke a cigarette.
     
  11. billfitzmaurice

    billfitzmaurice Commercial User

    Sep 15, 2004
    New Hampshire
    Owner, Bill Fitzmaurice Loudspeaker Design
    Tell him to stick with drums. Centering a voice coil on a recone calls for a reasonable amount of precision, but centering a dustcover can be done by eyeballing it. Tack it in two or three spots with superglue gel to hold it in place, then run a full bead around the joint and finally spritz with spray accelerator; total time less than a minute.
     
  12. theshadow2001

    theshadow2001

    Jun 17, 2004
    Ireland
    Indeed it's probably worth giving it a go to fix myself because I can't really justify spending the money to get someone else to do it. What harm if I do something stupid to it because its unplayable anyway.

    I was looking at mark bass cabs (who kindly gave out their specs) they're 10" cabs are rated from 35Hz to 20kHz. Does this mean that cab can handle decent sized 35Hz signal...in theory at least. Or is it just simply stating the usuable bandwidth for the product. What I found strange was that their 15" speaker was rated higher at 40Hz -20kHz. Does this indicate that you can get more lows from the tens.

    I'm sorry about all the cab noob questions its just it's seomthing that I have never really looked into properly before
     
  13. Philbiker

    Philbiker Pat's the best!

    Dec 28, 2000
    Northern Virginia, USA
    Personally if I were in your shoes I'd look into replacing the drivers in that bad boy with something from somplace like Parts Express. You could be back in business with your 210 for very low dollars. Or look into replacement drivers from Peavey.

    SPecifically if you have the cash - a pair of these drivers may do you right.
     
  14. billfitzmaurice

    billfitzmaurice Commercial User

    Sep 15, 2004
    New Hampshire
    Owner, Bill Fitzmaurice Loudspeaker Design

    Replacing the drivers is viable, but you can't just toss any tens in the box and expect them to work properly. Considering the paucity of engineering experience here I'd just go with Peavey replacements, one can hardly expect someone who doesn't know what a driver parameter is to properly match a driver to his cab.
     
  15. Petebass

    Petebass

    Dec 22, 2002
    QLD Australia
    Specs can be misleading, especially the "Frequency response" spec. For all we know, that speaker could be -35dB at 35Hz while the 15 is -3dB at 40Hz, making it impossible to tell which goes lower. Your ears are the best judge.
     
  16. Mcrelly

    Mcrelly

    Jun 16, 2003
    Minnesota, USA
    I'm not saying he has to ACTUALLY push 800w into the cab, just have a large amp for the times when he needs some volume spikes etc.

    analogy: which engine will last longer...

    4 cly running at 6,000 rpm to drive 60 mph

    or

    8 cly running at 1500 rpm to drive 60 mph

    not a perfect analogy, but the engine/amp that has to work harder to get up to speed/volume will not last as long.

    most speakers are hurt by smaller amps pushed too far by their owners, causing the output of the amp to be clipped causing the voice coils to overheat.
     
  17. Jimmy-X

    Jimmy-X

    Jan 1, 2006
    Oh, ok, so its about the head room for transient peaks.
    With guitar amps power amp distortion is the bees knees.
    Does something about the freq of bass make amp distortion more damaging to voice coils?
    Cheers!
     
  18. billfitzmaurice

    billfitzmaurice Commercial User

    Sep 15, 2004
    New Hampshire
    Owner, Bill Fitzmaurice Loudspeaker Design
    Electric bass requires on average four times the power as guitar to reach the same sound pressure levels.
     
  19. sublimate

    sublimate

    Jan 12, 2006
    No, with either guitar or bass distortion thru a tube amp is the "bees knees" (or any other warm and fuzzy analogy). Distortion thru a solid-state amp (ie, hard square-like waves) is what is damaging to voice coils.
     
  20. Oh God........:rollno:


    :p