Blown Aguilar GS410 speaker, AGAIN!!!!!

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by afroman, Jan 1, 2005.

  1. afroman


    Aug 31, 2000
    Brooklyn, NY
    I've owned an Aguilar GS410 for less than a year and I've blown 2 speakers. The fisrt time I though it was my fault even, cause I found the blown speaker after I let another band use ti after I played wiht my band.

    But I always use it at moderate levels with 500watts from a power amp. my preamp is det with EQ flat, gain at 5 and volume at 3. I always ask for bass in the monitors also, so I dont push the cab too loud. I love the soudn and I also have 2 GS112's. I bought all of them trough the internet and payed a lot for shipping them here ti Puerto Rico and I've never regreted it because of their sound.
    But after the first blown speaker I cant even enjoy playing 100% cause I'm always worried that it could happen again. I've used Peavey, SWR, Ampeg 410s and have played them very very loud (considerably more than I do with the Aguilar) and have never encountered a blown speaker problem.

    I emailed Aguilar to see what they think. I jst find it very strange that I suppossedly "high end" cab has this problem. Am I doin something wrong????? The cab is rated at 700w, so It's really hard for me to say tha the blown speaker is my fault. I play pop-rock and nothing really heavy or hardcore rock.

    Thanks for reading and I just wnat to get some opinions.
    Happy New Year
  2. IvanMike

    IvanMike Player Characters fear me... Staff Member Supporting Member

    Nov 10, 2002
    Middletown CT, USA
    chances are that some initial damage had happened from the previous user and/or the time the 1st speaker was blown. I'd think about getting all of the drivers reconed
  3. Eric Moesle

    Eric Moesle Supporting Member

    Sep 21, 2001
    Columbus OH
    I own two GS410's, they are very robust cabs. I agree with the above, I'll bet there was some damage from before that didn't become immediately apparent.

    Aguilar sells replacement drivers direct from its web site. If you recone with anything other than a recone kit with Aguilar's specifications, the cab will sound different. I don't think you have much choice other than to buy replacement drivers.
  4. Brian Barrett

    Brian Barrett

    Nov 25, 2001
    Murfreesboro, TN (Nashville)
    Dealer, Builder
    I'd consider that you are under powering the cabs. Driving the head to get more power then what it will actually produce and distorting the amp which will blow the speakers.

    You will blow speakers quicker by underpower and over driving the head then having to much power into the cab.

    What head are you using?

    Sorry about the speaker problem.
  5. afroman


    Aug 31, 2000
    Brooklyn, NY
    Yeah I know, I bought the first replacement directly from Aguilar. I don't know too muhc about underpowering the cab. I'm using a Carvin DCM1500 and I put 500w through it. I could run it in mono bridge mode putting 1500w, but that'll be too much. I did that in the beggining and I though that was why the first speaker blew.

    Thanks for the answers...
  6. Brian Barrett

    Brian Barrett

    Nov 25, 2001
    Murfreesboro, TN (Nashville)
    Dealer, Builder
    Bridge it mono for performance and headroom.

    A car might run 200 mph, but you don't have to drive it at the speed............. but performance is there!
  7. IvanMike

    IvanMike Player Characters fear me... Staff Member Supporting Member

    Nov 10, 2002
    Middletown CT, USA
    if that amp puts out 500 watts into that cab you coul;d theoretically blow it by clipping the power amp. IIRC, the aggie 4x10 is rated for 700 watts. When you clip an amp it generally puts out twice the wattage (thats an oversimplification) and sounds like the devil's own flatulence. So that amp would be putting out 1000 watts and your speaker dies. Bridging the amp gives you a pre clip max of 1500 watts, but you wont be using anywhere near that. you obviously can't turn the amp all the way up, but that won't be an issue.
  8. afroman


    Aug 31, 2000
    Brooklyn, NY
    Really?? I've had some clipping in the amp during shows. Can I really blow a speaker because of that?? Anyone else has had any experience like that?? But I've used heads with a lot less power and have never had problems. I was under the impression that I should put my pweramp on full volume and control the volume on the preamp, is this what I should do or am I doing it wrong?

    Any help is welcome. And thanks for the replies!!
  9. Passinwind

    Passinwind I Know Nothing Supporting Member

    Oh yeah, clipping is death and destruction to drivers. An amp with lots less clean power (like, say under 1/2 the speaker's rating) may not attain a high enough power output when clipped to destroy your speaker, but the one you're using now is right in "the zone". If you go bridged, and still clip the amp, expect even more problems though. Anyhow, your speaker will last longer with 1000 watts clean input than 1000 watts of clipped input. If you're clipping a 500 watt amp, that'd be a little hard to call moderate, no?

    I used to blow a lot of bass speakers. Since I went to much more powerful amps, I've blown none, but I've also learned to avoid any clipping at all costs.

    There have been plenty of discussions about this on TB, and some folks disagree vehemently with advising people to power at 1.5-2 X the speaker's rated RMS capacity. So, I'll let you do the research yourself, and draw your own conclusions.
  10. MJ5150

    MJ5150 Terrific Twister

    Apr 12, 2001
    Lacey, WA

    Always humble.....but Charlie is a wise man. :D

    Listen to him, you will.

  11. De Teng

    De Teng

    Oct 27, 2003
    Utrecht, Holland
    You should definitely turn the gain a little down, I think.

    Your master setting compensates for the volume and there you go. (E.g. Gain at three and Master at five would be better perhaps. When I have to set the gain, I play 'as hard as I do in a particular song' (of which I think it gives the highest peak)...check the limiter for clipping and set the gainlevel just below that point. During the show you'll never be playing that loud and so the clipping won't occur.

    Are you perhaps playing on an active bass or a passive with high output while another bass doesn't give you that much?

    I have a Bag End Q10B-X cab, rated 'conservatively' at 800W RMS and have a moderate power of max 350W with another extension cab. The peaks will never go beyond those 800 then. I think personally that peaks will even give you 'thrice' the power of you RMS power. So be aware...and your purse too! :smug:

    Hopefully this can be some help? :)
  12. IvanMike

    IvanMike Player Characters fear me... Staff Member Supporting Member

    Nov 10, 2002
    Middletown CT, USA
    like charlie said, you clip, you die. As i posted before, clipping that 500 watt amp can put 1k watts into that 700 watt cab.

    If you're running a pa, usually you dime the amp's inputs and control levels from the board. With a bass rig, you're going to get a better sound with the preamp volume up (like on heads with a preamp gain knob and a master volume). I have a powerful amp, so my poweramp sensitivity/gain knobs are usually somewhere between 9 o'clock and 12 o'clock maximum. Where i set those depends on about how loud i need to get. That way i can still use the preamp volume/gain to control overall volume, but i have it up where it should be. Having your poweramp's gain up to max when you were running bridge mono mode is probably why you fried that 1st speaker. And consider this - one speaker out of four died then. What do you suppose happened to the other three? They didn't draw straws to see who would get all that juice. They all got the crap beat out of them and speaker #1 experienced failure 1st. Clipping the amp at 500 watts on one channel beat up new speaker #1, but he was new. Speakers 2, 3, and 4 already had scars and #2 couldn't take it any more.
  13. Poon


    May 20, 2003
    Los Angeles, CA
    If it makes you feel any better...i've blown a few aguilar gs410 speakers. I play pop-punk as well. Get another GS410 and you won't have a problem anymore. It sounds absurd, but you don't drive your cab as hard to achieve the same volume. I'm using two gs410's now and it may seem like a pain to haul around, but when you're competing against 2 JCM1000's on each side of you, they can't really say much.
  14. afroman


    Aug 31, 2000
    Brooklyn, NY
    Wow thatnks guys for all the knowledge.
    I really was under the impression that I was more than OK with 500 watts to the GS410.
    Another thing; my Carvin DCM1500 puts 1500w bridged at 4 ohms and 500w x 2 at 4 ohms. This last setup is what I'd use when I now start to play with my GS410 on one side, and my 2 GS112's on the other.
    Should I get an even more powerful power amp???
    Or will having more speakers make me play at lesser volumes and get the clipping problems go away or at least be minimum??

    Thanks for your advice...

    PS> I'm thinking of changing all the speakers in the GS410. do you think this would be the right move or should I replace the broken one and be aware if any more clipping occurs??
  15. Blown in what sense? Not working at all or farting and buzzing? I.E. Blown voice coil or mechanically damaged?

    As for clipping, I'd think that if you were clipping hard enough to cause thermal damage, the distortion would be clearly audible, even in a band situation.
  16. Petebass


    Dec 22, 2002
    QLD Australia
    Exactly. The danger with clipping is that a clipping amp puts out more than it's rated power. True a 500w amp that's clipping at 100%THD can put out 1000w, but do you know how bad that would sound? You'd hear problems long before you could get anywhere near 100%THD. At a moderate clip, that amp is still probably only putting out 700w into a 700w speaker, or close enough to it to rule it out as a cause.

    I'd be looking at other causes. Afroman are you boosting any low frequencies with EQ? Is the cab is being fed signals which contain frequencies which are lower than what the cab can handle (e.g bass with more than 4 strings, an effect that might be adding lows)?
  17. afroman


    Aug 31, 2000
    Brooklyn, NY
    Not at all. My EQ is mainly flat. My BBE Bmax eq is BASS flat, TREBLE a little bit of cut, and MID flat (mid is only cut not boost).
    I use 5-string basses but the GS410 is more than capable of handling the 5-string, which I dont use that much anyways.

    I heard a little farting before I noticed the speaker was blown. I looked inside and the speakers loked fine. That's why it caught me by surprised when I looked again the week later and one speaker was blown all the way around. I really know now about the clipping thing, but to me it's very strange that my amp would clip.
    I'll try to use a lower gain level and turn up in the volume knob.
    Well I'll try when I get the new speaker.

    Thanks for all the help. It really helps cause I was really in awe, when I saw that I had blown another 10" speaker. I know now about the clipping situation so I'll have that in mind in the future.

    Another thing, is there any other way to avoid clipping?? Should I compress??? I used the compressor on my BBE and the limiter on my power amp so I'd like to know what else should I do to avoid this again.

  18. jokerjkny


    Jan 19, 2002
    NY / NJ / PA

    me thinks this might be the problem...
  19. Petebass


    Dec 22, 2002
    QLD Australia
    This is definitely an over-excursion problem. Assuming the speaker wasn't faulty, I'm therefore fairly certain that 'someone' fed that speaker lots of B string with the bass boosted... or something to that effect. I'm not saying it was you.........
  20. This is what I was getting at.....:D

    The surround being ripped is a totally different situation than a voice coil burn. The most common cause of excursion damage in vented bass cabs is operating the cab below its tuning frequency. If you like a dub-type sound or lots of fundamental on the B string, most bass cabs with 10s aren't particularly well equipped to deal with that much LF information. You can damage speakers mechanically at power levels way below rated handling with perfectly clean power. This type of problem tends to be cumulative too, so there may not have been one particular incident that caused the problem...... It may be defective drivers. I have seen a lot of new drivers with cone-surround glue joint issues.