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Boogie 400+ Vs. Boogie Basis M-2000

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by popinfresh, Mar 25, 2005.


  1. popinfresh

    popinfresh

    Dec 23, 2004
    Melbourne, Aus
    EDIT: Add the Sunn/Fender to the list. Although i'm not sure how it will go with the voltage change yet, they seem to be kind of what i'm after. How often do you see one going for sale? And what's the average price? I suppose PRE fender would be better?

    Hey guys. I've decided to get a new amp before i do anything with the cab. First off, if you want to suggest anything to suit my needs, go ahead.
    Secondly. I've been looking at both the boogie's, as i know i like the tone of mesa and i've talked with Mesa in the US and they said importing one from the US (to Aus) is easy done.
    Now, i like the look of the 400+ for a couple reasons, firstly it's warm, full tone and all the rest that we know about. Secondly, it's reliabilty. All i hear about these are that they are built like tanks.
    The Mesa 2000 has caught my eye because of the fact that it has SS/Tube preamps, that have two EQ's each side and the ability to blend them.

    The main use for the amp will be my band. Old school hard rock like sabbath/zeppelin. It's mainly fingerstyle with me holding down the lows and keeping the sound full. But there are songs that are slapped a fair bit, or have little solo's and fill that i'd like to cut through nicely. Theres also songs in which i would like a dirty and clean sound in different parts. Apart from the band, it's a lot of solo bass or reggae/funk/ska etc.

    So, can the basis 2000 get a nice full sound when using the tube side? Can it get nice o/d? (Calling owners or people who have used it).
    I'm thinking in the future, if i got the bass 400+, i might add a GK 2001 preamp to it or something, so in songs where i want to go from full thick sounding to bright snappy and punchy, it can be done (Hopefully?).
    The thing that is putting me off with the Basis 2000, is the reliability. Unlike the 400+ which has been a mainstay at boogie, i hear several reports of reliability issues with the 2000 and Mesa reporting that it 'had issues'. Any input on that?

    So really, i'm looking for something with tubes (Doesn't have to be all tube though). Can be changed easily from 110 to 240volt. Can be thick and warm. Yet can be changed in song for nice clea punchyness or go from distortion to clean with a footswitch or something.

    Another amp that caught my eye was the Fender/Sunn 300/T. As it has the tubey goodness, yet i can mix the channels etc. I've also heard a couple reliability issues with this amp as well though. And seens i'l be importing, Fender over here won't want anything to do with me.


    What do you guys think?
     
  2. Hurley

    Hurley

    Feb 12, 2004
    Cape Cod, MA
    I owned a 400+ and would definitely recommend it. It's an absolute tank- everything feels solid and inspires confidence. Having two inputs/channels is cool too, as you can experiment with driving both at the same time (clean/clean can sound huge, and clean/effect gives you some nice blend options.) I'm not much of a tweaker, and I really liked that I could just plug in to the Mesa and get a good tone in under a minute. I may be wrong, but you might need to spend some time with the 2000 before you get something you like. I'm sure it's a nice amp though (it's a Mesa, after all). :)
     
  3. For voltage conversions just get a good quality stepdown transformer

    mains -> (240) stepdown transformer (120) -> amp

    make sure its a good quality one tho
     
  4. BurningSkies

    BurningSkies CRAZY BALDHEAD

    Feb 20, 2005
    Seweracuse, NY
    I now own Hurley000's 400+ and I concur with his opinion. It has usable high end unlike some of the solid states I've played...and if you want to run different sounds, it has a foot-switchable graphic EQ as well as high gain and low gain chanels. It's definitely thick and warm, but has the highs and definition that some other tube heads lack.

    I also like the pull-shift pots on the main eq knobs...they're a good quick way to alter tone in a usable way. Fer instance, while I usually go for warm & fat, my band also does a couple of funk songs that I need cut through a bit more on...so I use the pull-shift on the treble knob and it brings me up front.

    I seriously don't know why he every sold it to me, but I'm happy that he did!
     
  5. Hurley

    Hurley

    Feb 12, 2004
    Cape Cod, MA
    Rub it in, why don't ya? :( ;)

    It will be missed, but I'm glad it went to a good home.
     
  6. BassBeat33

    BassBeat33

    Feb 12, 2005
    charleston, wv
    I have the mesa m2000, i have had it for a little over a month with no problems but thats not really long enough to give a reliability report. I will say though that it takes awhile to figure out what all the controls do so you just have to be patient. It might take awhile to get a nice core tone for each side but once you do that it's very easy to tweak it to get just what you want. Also, think about how you will use it, do you really need 3 different channels, I say this because i find myself staying on the mix channel 85% of the time. The m2000 does have a really nice sound though and the o/d is pretty good with the high gain switch flipped on the tube side. Either route you go I'm sure will be good.
     
  7. BurningSkies

    BurningSkies CRAZY BALDHEAD

    Feb 20, 2005
    Seweracuse, NY

    I fear not that you'll find something that'll make the 400 look like old news, or at least more of the sound that you're looking for. I had my last head for over 10 years, and I see this one sticking around even longer. ;)
     
  8. Or something louder, thats always good :p
     
  9. BurningSkies

    BurningSkies CRAZY BALDHEAD

    Feb 20, 2005
    Seweracuse, NY
    Nope.

    400+ has eep big volume.

    Hurley000 also has cabinet with many 10 inch speakers.

    I haven't run 400+ with main over 4 and pre over 3 in a full 5 piece band setting. In fact, I've had to turn down.
     
  10. icks

    icks

    Jul 12, 2001
    Charleroi, Belgium
    it seems that you need a lot of tone under the feet, if you gig regulary it will be better for you to get the mesa M 2000, with its footswich.

    I own one since 2 years, I like it very much, tons of tones, very reliable, i did some gig where it was pushed hard during one hour set then set up in my car at 8°C outside...
    I know but I was young and stupid. I'll trust better a hybrid amp then a full tubes one, especialy for a dummy like me.

    The OD is a overgained tube channel settings, but you can enable/disable the EQ at your feet, pushing the hights on the eq will give you a more guitar like tone with an OD. Boosting the Low and the od won't being heard that much.

    You can also run the mixed mode. Half tube Half fet with disto on the tube and low boost on the fet. Very good combination.


    Peace,
    1Ck$
     
  11. popinfresh

    popinfresh

    Dec 23, 2004
    Melbourne, Aus
    Hmmm, the only real reason i've been turning away from the m-2000 a little is most reviews i read have reliability issues, and all 400+ ones are on how reliable it is, although i suppose i just have to find a good M-2000.

    I'm just wondering, because the 400+ has two different inputs. Is there any way you could run the one input a little hotter than the other so that one is distorted and the other is clean.. Then switch between both inputs with an a/b box or similar?

    Also, does anyone have any opinions on the Fender/Sunn 300/T? This looks good for it's dirty/clean channels (So i can switch mid song).. Although for the price, it doesn't match Mesa's quality. Anyone know what they go for used?
     
  12. BurningSkies

    BurningSkies CRAZY BALDHEAD

    Feb 20, 2005
    Seweracuse, NY
    Yes, and Mesa suggests an a/b box be used with it (they'll sell you an expensive one, or you can find any number of other types...I might look for an a/b/ab so you can run all three options. One channel is hotter than the other, with slightly different tone. I haven't pushed mine to distortion because I like clean sound, but I'm guessing it would be pretty willing to go. As Hurley000 suggested, you can also split your signal and run into both channels. It's pretty fat sounding, especially when I tried it with his Ampeg 8x10 cab. The other nice thing with the 400+ is that it runs it's full wattage into either 8,4 or 2ohm loads...since it's tube the amp taps from different parts of the transformer.
     
  13. Hey, you can ALWAYS go louder :p
     
  14. BurningSkies

    BurningSkies CRAZY BALDHEAD

    Feb 20, 2005
    Seweracuse, NY
    Just to maybe be a bit of a bad influence:

    Pics of the 400+
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Shot without the top cover.
    [​IMG]

    ...did it work?
    :)
     
  15. Hurley

    Hurley

    Feb 12, 2004
    Cape Cod, MA
    So that's what she looked like. I never took her outta the case. Cool pics. :)
     
  16. BurningSkies

    BurningSkies CRAZY BALDHEAD

    Feb 20, 2005
    Seweracuse, NY
    Yeah, it was the first thing I did when I got her home. I always gotta look and see what's under the hood.

    Oddly, you can see that the 12AX7 on the far right is not matched with the others...it's a sovtek, and the other 3 are GT... Dunno why...buy I changed it out with a EH12AX7...no stress.

    Either way, it sounds gooooood.

    -B.
     
  17. Hurley

    Hurley

    Feb 12, 2004
    Cape Cod, MA
    Hmm.. I never noticed that. Did you notice any difference after swapping it out?
     
  18. BurningSkies

    BurningSkies CRAZY BALDHEAD

    Feb 20, 2005
    Seweracuse, NY
    I haven't really given it a workout since I switched it out. I'll know tomorrow night when the band practices...I have a feeling that I won't know the difference as I'm still getting used to the sound of the amp in general...That and since there are 4 12AX7's there's so much tube in the mix who knows?

    Once I'm done eating rice and beans in a week or two I may drop a line to Bob @ Eurotubes and get a discussion going on what he thinks would be best for the pre stage. Not that it needs tubes or that I don't have eleventy billion replacements...but, y'know, it's in my nature. :)
     
  19. popinfresh

    popinfresh

    Dec 23, 2004
    Melbourne, Aus
    Mmmm.... sexyness..

    So how does the drive work on this amp then? Do you set the master at whatever you want, then boost up say channel one's volume until the tubes o/d? Would that mean if you used an a/b box the first channel would be louder than the second? Or do you do it differently?
    Also, can you swith the EQ with a pedal? Or do you have to use the switch on the amp?
    Last question, whats on the very left of the front panel? The red light, and whats below it?

    EDIT: One other question.. Is there anything anywhere on the amp that says it should run at 110volt? You know how some amps have a stamp or sticker etc.. Just if i change the voltage and something happened and i was to blame (Doubt it'd ever happen though) i wouldn't want them to see a thing on the amp saying it's meant to be running on 110. Although it's no biggy..
     
  20. Hurley

    Hurley

    Feb 12, 2004
    Cape Cod, MA
    Yep, it's footswitchable.

    The fuse holder.

    I'll let BurningSkies answer the rest. :p