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Bose 802 as a PA

Discussion in 'Miscellaneous [BG]' started by tuBass, Aug 9, 2003.


  1. tuBass

    tuBass

    Dec 14, 2002
    Mesquite, Texas
    There is an issue that is bothering me greatly and I'm hoping somebody can give me some advice. My church is going through a renovation, and we have an acoustic engineer that is designing a sound system for our size and shape of the building, along with helping us upgrade our rack equipment, and acoustic paneling. I am the A/V director, so I have final say in what we spend money on.

    Here's the problem. He's wanting to put in a Bose system, including 802 panarays and an acoustimass subwoofer. I have heard nothing but negatives about bose sound systems for churches, except from our acoustic engineer, and his brother, who is a person of high stature at our church. Maybe you can give me you perspective on them.

    Are there any links or testing of bose equipment that you could show me? All that I have found so far are people saying "no highs, no lows, that's Bose"

    I can't help thinking the bose system would be a huge mistake, but I could be wrong. Do any of you play in venues with a bose system? any stories you would like to pass along to me? Good or Bad?

    I'm not saying I know more than him, but I'm wondering if I could ask him at this late stage to come up with a plan B using traditional speakers. It would be nice to have a choice and go with the one your most comfortable with.

    Thanks,
    Mark
     
  2. Petebass

    Petebass

    Dec 22, 2002
    QLD Australia
    I'm always dubious of guys who push a particular speaker without offering alternate choices. I think you'll find his decision to use Bose is more to do with his financial reward than acoustics. He's probably struck a deal which gives him a bigger margin, maybe even a kickback.

    My understanding of Bose is they rely on a processor unit which is basically a predetermined EQ curve. Nothing fancy but the markleting that went into it was full on. Every sound engineer I know says that bose are a marketing company who just happens to make speakers. There was even a thread on TB (which unfortunately was deleted) where some pretty well respected TBer's unanimously voted that bose were not too good.

    What specifically is the acoustic challenge with the your particular church?
     
  3. tuBass

    tuBass

    Dec 14, 2002
    Mesquite, Texas
    Today I talked to him, and he has agreed to go in a different direction. He will work something up using traditional speaker by the end of the week. Boy, is that a load off my mmind!

    In answer to your other question, we have a typical shotgun shape building with a pretty low ceiling. Also, there is no place to put the subwoofer unless we hang it from the ceiling, which I really don't want to do. I'm hoping we can get a couple of 12 or 15" full range speakers that will cover the bass well enough that we don't have to get a sub. right now we are using 1 12" speaker as our only source of sound, so an upgrade is in order.


    Mark
     
  4. Petebass

    Petebass

    Dec 22, 2002
    QLD Australia
    yes but remember that 15's aren't 15's. Most 15+horn type PA speakers are good for maybe 55Hz to 20K. 55Hz is not that low and they're probably down a few dB at that frequency. a dedicated 15" sub will be loving it at 50Hz and can probably go down to 35 or 40 before it trails off. It really depends how much kick drum and bass your congregation will need to hear.

    Last week I stumbled on to an article you may find interesting. It won't help with your current delima but........ click HERE
     
  5. iplaybass

    iplaybass Guest

    Feb 13, 2000
    Germantown, TN
    Really? I always heard "Great highs, no lows, gotta be Bose" I have a set of 301s, and they definately have nice highs. No low mids to speak of though. I'm going to switch them for a set of Cerwin Vega 10's.
     
  6. embellisher

    embellisher Holy Ghost filled Bass Player Staff Member Supporting Member

    I am no sound engineer, but I agree with this statement 100%.

    And I am also of the opinion that Bose and bass are mutually exclusive.

    Every acoustimass system I have ever heard sounded like 'bass' coming out of a tiny port on a plastic box.

    Big $$$ are made on rep of the brand, but the product is very underwhelming, IMHO.
     
  7. Funkster

    Funkster

    Apr 6, 2000
    Wormtown, MA
    :( :bawl: I'm Hurt!! I work at Bose (20 years), and get it right it's All High's and all lows with nothing in between, it must be Bose. Or as the saying goes Bose! Better off somewher else....
    I'm not gonna get into this argument again!;)
    We used to make a great product in the 70's and 80's, We have all but discontinued all our floor standing speakers and our Pro division is non existent.
    We are into all kinds of new technology that I can't disclose, Let's put it this way our speakers are not our bread and butter any more.
    As for our marketing yeah we do pretty good without the help of TV, You'll never see Bose advertisement during the superbowl and besides the infomercial you never see a Bose advertisement on prime time TV
    If your looking for Pro products go EAW, They are the best in the business right now.
     
  8. embellisher

    embellisher Holy Ghost filled Bass Player Staff Member Supporting Member

    Henry,

    The stuff that Bose made in the 70's was great IMHO.

    The home theatre stuff IMHO is overpriced and has no bass at all. Like I said, it sounds to me like it is coming out of a plastic box with a tiny port.

    Sorry.:(
     
  9. Funkster

    Funkster

    Apr 6, 2000
    Wormtown, MA
    I must agree Jeff,
     
  10. Aw see? Now Ya made Henry cry.

    I have to come to his rescue, he's a fellow Ibanez Musician owner now! :D

    Anyway, I have a pair of Bose 501 V tower speakers that I bought about eight years ago, and still love 'em. The one word I would use to descirbe them is: balanced. I don't know anything about their current stuff, but, these guys sound great.

    Just my $.02

    Mike

    Insult my speakers, and you'll speak directly to Mr. Bose (and arrows!:eek: ) :p
     
  11. Funkster

    Funkster

    Apr 6, 2000
    Wormtown, MA
    Thanks Bro, You da man Mike! You got one of the last great designs my friend I bought a pair of those for my neighbor about 6 years ago and he absolutley loves them and never had any probs with them. Any of there floor standing speakers are awesome in my opinion and even some of the new updated Home Ent stuff has greatly improved over the years. I just got the DVD 3-2-1 system presented to me for 20 years service and I love it! It's come a long way since the first AM-5's.

    I'll be using that Ibanez tonight at rehearsal and next week at our gig, I haven't been able to put it down since I got it:D You'll probably shoot me but I like mine in passive mode better than Active! I like the Active mode but passive gives a nice rounder tone. Great bass and it's in the regular rotation.
    Later Bro
     
  12. tuBass

    tuBass

    Dec 14, 2002
    Mesquite, Texas
    Here's an update. He has decided the the bose is the best thing for us, and he won't submit a proposal that dowsn't involve Bose speakers. The latest proposal has us using two 502a loudspeakers, and two MB4 subwoofers. I find both of these choices to be less than satisfactory, and don't intend on giving my approval, though I could be overruled by the governing board. I found out his brother was the one who gave the church the $10,000 gift for the acoustic upgrades, and expects us to rubber stamp everything that his brother suggests. Things are probably going to get messy here in the next month because that's not the way I do things.
    It's possible that we could have to offer back all or part of the monry that was given just to keep the peace. I have come up with a plan to augment our current speaker system with some fill speakers, and do the acoustic paneling upgrades that the acoustic engineer will say are needed. I also want to do electrical upgrades on the stage area, and get some come roland v-drums to help our balance.

    Chruch politics can be so messy, if your so inclined, do a little prayer for me, OK?

    Mark
     
  13. embellisher

    embellisher Holy Ghost filled Bass Player Staff Member Supporting Member

    Will do! That is a sticky situation. Adding you to my prayer list.:)
     
  14. tuBass

    tuBass

    Dec 14, 2002
    Mesquite, Texas
    I knew I could count on you Jeff. Thanks!
     
  15. Petebass

    Petebass

    Dec 22, 2002
    QLD Australia
    I told you there'd be an ulteria motive. Fancy stuffing around a church for personal gain. That's low!

    And I fear that the board will take whatever is on offer provided they don't have to dig into their own coffers. You may have to point out that a the Bose system may same they spending their own money now, but they'll most likely have to fork out later to fix things up.
     
  16. Petebass

    Petebass

    Dec 22, 2002
    QLD Australia
    Tubass, I did a gig on Friday at a venue that had a Bose PA installation. The mid-highs were 802's, plus some subs of unknown origin under the stage.

    I talked to the sound guy at length about the 802's. Given that he's done 3 gigs a week with then for a couple of years, I figured he'd be qualified to comment on them.

    His opinion was that he'd really like to add fome tweeters and cross tham over at about 10k. He thought that everything above that sounded a bit "hit and miss". When I asked him to elaborate, he said that some things sounded quite good (recorded music player by the DJ, Acoustic guitars), other things sounded harsh (Vocals and keys).

    At this point I looked into the crowd at the 600+ people dancing and having a wonderful time and said "no-one out there seems to notice". He shrugged his shoulders and said "If they're happy, I'm happy".

    I guess what I'm trying to say is that they may not be the best speakers out there, but thay'll get you by.
     
  17. tuBass

    tuBass

    Dec 14, 2002
    Mesquite, Texas
    Thanks a lot Pete! Not exactly a ringing endorsment, but interesting anyway.

    Mark
     
  18. TuBass

    On my prayer list:D

    Petebass

    Good article about hillsongs. I just love their budget they are working to.

    Regards

    Matthew